22-year-old builds chips in his parents' garage (2022)
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Hardware is still really hard. But it’s definitely something someone with a software salary can bootstrap in their garage these days. Especially because I can go to JLCPCB and get some reasonably complex fully assembled prototype boards shipped to me in a week or two for $5-20 USD per unit. Ridiculously nice
We have our share of problems, but compared to the problems of other countries, I can't help but feel they're significantly less.
A large part of it being how isolated we are from the rest of the world and all the benefits that provides. Not to mention the low population density of the country as a whole.
Work anywhere in Asia, and while your wage may be lower, what you get for it goes a whole lot further. Restaurants are a focus, but things like a regular cleaner, doorman, club memberships are a whole lot more accessible. Things that are really only available in Australia to generational wealth these days, are available to skilled employees.
Work in western Europe, and the wages are slightly higher, and the cost of living is slightly lower; however the expectation for work-life balance is far better. 38hr weeks are very strict, with an expectation of flex time and time in lieu. with more weeks off, and better access to things like parental leave and study accommodations.
People make poor comparisons to America, because its a very hard thing to generalize. From my personal experience as a skilled full time worker, there is not one metric where Australia is a clear winner, and many where its far behind. The top end of healthcare is better in the USA, and if you factor in the lower taxes cheaper too. Crime statistics are worse, but localized to places I have no reason to go... I would say that USA as country is worse, but if you only look at the experience of someone who already has a skilled job, then you come out far ahead in the states.
I work remotely for a tech company and to say that you can barely work in Australia whilst earning a very decent salary, is an understatement. 2 - 3 hours a day, at most (at least in tech). Some days you don't even have to do anything. And this is most large companies (although it depends on your rank).
This factor alone makes Australia an amazing place to live, excluding all the other reasons to live here.
Compared to America and Asia, if I have to work 3-4 times harder than I currently am, what am I actually gaining? I'm just losing time to live the life I truly want. No thank you.
And fully remote in the states has the additional benefit of actual high speed internet.
And I wouldn't even consider myself top-tier at what I do.
Although to your point, I think Australian work culture is very flexible. You can work a lot if you want. You can also do the bare minimum. I've just noticed that there's no enforced standard, aside from doing literally nothing. In a lot of cases, the few people who do work a lot do end up making up for all the people who don't want to work, so it evens out in the end.
Failing government. Constant crime. Water shortages. Power blackouts. Is it perhaps different if you're living in a gated community?
In Australia I can safely travel to anywhere within the country.
Where do you live btw? Would be interesting to research, happy to look into it more.
Covid camps and police take down for people jogging without masks did not convince you to move? I guess nothing will
In addition, can you please also outline the problems of these countries, so we can properly evaluate and understand their problems objectively.
https://www.mpamag.com/au/mortgage-industry/guides/what-are-...
The rest are country towns, not suburban ones. Where you need to drive hours to get to anything approaching what you might think of as “downtown”, and even then there’s not gonna be a lot there.
The reality in Australia is that the vast majority of the population lives within 100km of the east coast. It’s not like America where there are literally thousands of decent-sized small towns (tens of thousands of people), there just isn’t enough population for that. Almost half the population lives in two cities (Melbourne and Sydney) and neither of these are affordable places no matter how far out into the suburbs you go.
Usually these places are cheap because there is little economy (so few jobs), so most of the even slightly ambitious youth escape to the cities or larger towns in the area, which leaves them with ‘interesting’ demographics.
This is an interesting inversion actually, because things like meth and then the associated crime are much more of a problem in the country than the cities here, which is kind of the opposite of what you hear about the cities being dangerous in places like the US.
#5 Queenstown is also contaminated [2]. It's an interesting place to visit, as the surrounds look like the moon [3], since the contamination stop anything from growing.
The rest could be nice?
[1] https://theconversation.com/lead-poisoning-of-port-pirie-chi...
[2] https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/tasmanian-lakes-metal-c...
[3] https://www.google.com/search?q=queenstown+moonscape&tbm=isc...
https://inqld.com.au/insights/2022/12/14/police-shooting-tra...
There's a reason these places are cheap.
At least three of the neighbors within sight of my own house are some sort of residential construction or property trade contractor. Two are public school teachers. At least one paints houses for a living. It is apparently totally possible to work a trade and live a recently comfortable lifestyle. I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying that there is a straightforward path to break in to that lifestyle but it is evidently more than abundantly possible.
Like I said, all the tradespeople I know are struggling with lower 6, much less hair over 7.
The error bars here are huge.
1. Find a job where you have a workspace or a lab to tinker in.
2. Find a makerspace/hackerspace in your neighborhood.
So in a way this all is more about online orders as well as global access and visibility than about the actual tech.
Wasted decades in a way. Guess we needed to build the interwebs first.
If anyone has a really feasible/well working solution for enclosures etc. please post them :)
That said, while I excluded the molding part explicitly, since I thought about CNC milling, pick /place and other computer-cobtrolled multi-axis applications, I think one could have used CNC and/or some kind of "sand" baking (negative) appoach. Not sure what kind of hard wood solutions might also have worked as some kind of medium for subtractive designing the negative for a small production run.
Still not something I would see as easily implementable. But I also have no lazy solution with nice results today. E.g. for implementing display windows some kind of professionally color-coated clear case seems the way to go to get to something that ressembles current standards (always the main problem, anyway). Hard to do that with limited space and without a professional absorber solution.
Wait do you mean etching wafers, or milling PCBs? One of those things you listed is not like the others.
It'd have to be a really clean garage tho
Very interested in doing this myself.
(Also interested in specific recommendations for a desktop pick n place if anyone has some)
or any similar Shenzhen special. Buy bigger over smaller.
Buy, don't build. There will be a handful of recommendations for the Opulo Lumen/OpenPNP: avoid them. Avoid everything but ballscrew designs: you will spend an annoying amount of time trying to calibrate a belt-driven design and calibration will never stick.
Please, do not make the mistake I did: get something with CL feeders, make this investment. Drag feeders are not good - they are slow and the stylus will violently shake parts out of reels (or you'll spend time calibrating it to try and avoid this issue - don't waste the time.) Get something that can do 0201, even if you don't use it.
Ideally, get something that uses a separate, commodity host machine.
I didn't build my vapor phase reflow oven, either.
I'm trying to solve my own problems, not craft a basic piece of equipment for bragging rights; I just don't have the kind of free time to have things not work perfectly.
But if you're small, you can't build most of what you need, and you should not build what you can buy that's better than whaf you can build, and you may as well buy things that you can build as good unless the cost to build is much less.
Sometimes it's fun to build things instead of buying them, and that'a ok. But if your goal is to do X, you're better off spending time on X than spending time building tools you could have bought. (Unless building the tools builds requisite knowledge)
I love building machines - enough so that I never build anything with them. Maybe someday I will, but by then 15155 will have built hundreds of things.
Mold making is a difficult science of itself. I can’t point you in a general direction beyond what worked for me. I started with OpenSCAD then moved to FreeCAD then eventually ended up with Fusion360. You need to have a vision for what you want to make, or else you won’t follow through till the end with learning. There is some dude from Texas who wrote a textbook on the subject that was invaluable for me in learning how to design oxygenation and cooling techniques. This is hardcore industrial engineering stuff, the kind of thing that you don’t casually do.if you’re trying to learn and do this yourself you need to not be afraid of doing some applied physics.
There was a lot of crying and pain and trial and error for me to teach myself. If you know what you want I would instead go on fiverr or its equivalent of the day and hire yourself an actual mold designer and save yourself 90% of the pain and heartache that I went through. Mold designers are weirdly cheap for the insane amount of expertise they offer
Printing the mold is another heartache of itself. I used anycubic photon with a flex plate and Sriraya resin. That was a journey all by itself - I originally started with insanely expensive Formlabs stuff before getting to the Anycubic solution. Again it took a lot of crying and trial and error to get it right. But it costs a mere fraction of what it costs to do it the normal way at least
https://jlcpcb.com/blog/4-Free-Assembly-for-Your-PCB
The GP commenter also wrote about a price "per unit":
> get some reasonably complex fully assembled prototype boards shipped to me in a week or two for $5-20 USD per unit.
My main issue is semiconductor lines are fragile beasts that need constant tinkering. So if the system requires full time staff to keep running, that’s going to be really expensive.
500 VU19P will cost less than 5 million.
Xilinx launches ‘industry’s first’ 20 nanometer space-grade FPGA chip
If it’s not finFET then a non production mask set is much less than $50 million in 2023.
Also, keep in mind maskless lithography has been used commercially for roughly ten years now. And it’s been in Universities for significantly longer.
The stuff that you don't want to mess with is Silane, which Sam describes as "a toxic and explosive gas".[1]
So whilst not quite garage ready we’re probably 2-5 years of you being able to order completely custom silicon form the likes of PCBway and have it shipped in the matter of days rather than months.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/technology/three-month...
At the time I saw some of Sam's videos (I think I originally found them here on HN), and I had a big question: If a hobbyist can build 1970's era chips for ~$10k in his garage, and Intel can build 2020's era chips for ~$10B in state-of-the-art factories, why doesn't someone start a startup building 1990's era chips in a ~$10M facility?
I'd assume Atomic Semi is that startup :)
Not sure what global chip availability is, but this event made me feel like the supply chain chip chaos is alive and well
Ive been looking for almost 5 months for an entry level hardware job (preferably in SF, but willing to relocate anywhere), and 100k is about what Im looking for based on what Ive seen.
Some go as low as 85, and some start at 120, but 100k is pretty standard.
The salaries are not what they were in 2021
If I read correctly, that concept maps really well to LUTs as used in FPGAs (but note it's not the same!).
Its author/inventor Mike Warot has the simple but useful idea of making the configuration space of such a device a simple memory array (like RAM or EEPROM cells). Write some bits to a memory location -> cell [x,y] in the device's grid is configured.
This would make it trivial to control/interface such a 'compute grid' to traditional cpus. To a cpu it would just look like regular RAM.
Anyone know if there's work towards applying that idea to FPGAs? It would basically evaporate the problem of [closed source FPGA vendor toolchains].
Obviously, bitstreams produced by FPGA vendor tools will do a somewhat similar thing. But what/how exactly is opaque. Not to mention encrypted bitstreams, read-protection & what have you. Hence require re-engineering effort for open source tool support.
Turning this into a dead simple 1:1 mapping would be a huge step forward.
I hope to learn enough Verilog/VHDL/RTL to take advantage of the Free Shuttle program they have[1] eventually.
Currently, I'm wondering how to go from expressions to code I can load into a bitgrid. The thought of parsing code, building an AST, converting that to an acyclic directed graph of binary expressions, to actual bits to load the grid with.... overwhelms me, and has me putting it off. 8(
I do have a working simulator, written in Pascal[2], that can run fairly quickly for toy problems on my desktop PC. So, there's been some progress.
I strongly suspect I can get there, but need an accountability buddy to push me along. I used to be a self starter, but I stayed in an IT Admin job too long that crushed it out of me.
You’re not required to buy the tile to take the lessons
22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36690206 - July 2023 (3 comments)
22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30043719 - Jan 2022 (335 comments)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_znRopGtbE
Also, very well documenated more recent attempt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx1TenvQXTg
40 years ago, one only had radios to disect and fat circuit boards to etch. Access to docs was really bad. And people had to be pros at 22 to overcome these home/garage limitations.
So. Progress.
1. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jun/02/facebook-p...
Or even firefighting station!: https://apnews.com/article/firefighters-cancer-pfas-turnout-...
If you want to worship a DIY-god then look up Jerry Ellsworth. She's the real deal, unlike this guy, and makes chips with her own dumpster-dived repaired machinery, not with contacts to the local University's million dollar research lab.
And with your attitude, no, most likely you wouldn’t have built anything with a $30k laser cutter.
I'm curious, what work were you doing that was stymied by your parents lack of funding?
The risk of burnout would be very high, and not reasonable for such a profoundly knowledgeable resource.
"We all take two years to develop one generation, how come you guys can do it in one or one-and-a-half year?" And they asked if some of your customer transfer technology to you or what not? And I told him, "No," I told him that, "That's not true." I think he probably implied we steal technology from customer, the way he talk.
And I say, "I'll tell you why." I said that, "When we develop one node, basically you have some learning cycles. First, you do some simulation. And you have some idea, then you run wafers to prove that. So, you run a group of wafers according to simulation and you have some splits. The wafer runs through the fab, they come out and you measure them, you analyze them, and you try to improve and you run this again. This again, you run. So, this is learning cycle." At that time, "It takes about six learning cycle, roughly, to complete one generation." Of course, you had some short loops and not just one. I said that, "My R&D wafer in the fab run much faster than yours, because my R&D engineer works three shifts and you only work one shift. So, your R&D wafer move eight hours a day, my work/move 24-hours a day. So, my wafers go three times faster, even if you are twice smarter than me, I still beat you up." <laughter>
https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/10279267...
They're amazing if you love sitting in traffic.
If we want to park a car in there, it's about an hour of moving stuff out of the way. I stand at the back as a spotter while my wife drives at me. Once she hit me, she turns the car off and climbs out through the back seat. I then climb over the roof of the car.
I wish I was making this up. Glad it's 12 years old with no sun roof. I don't have to feel bad about sliding over it.
I'm a European who's lived in an "American downtown" because I was told the suburbs are horrible, but what you're describing sounds great.
Where are you? SF? SD? NY? Miami? You're paying a premium for the right to brag about it. Not for the amenities.
Probably shouldn’t be taking advice from Reddit.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Edit: you broke the site guidelines elsewhere in thread as well - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38003753. Please don't do that.
Of course, it's not equivalent to being able to walk to places, but I feel the pros outweigh the cons in terms of what you do get from the suburbs.
This is why we can’t have nice things. We simply can’t rely on a class of workers to dote on us simply because we fancy living in the burbs. The amount of waste just so you can get your instacart. The reality is near 8% mortgages have put suburbs with garages out of reach for almost everyone without a trust fund or selling their startup.
Simple example would be to reduce the scale up and install cost of clean energy.
You make zero sense. Going to the grocery store involves the same workers helping you pay for gas and selling you groceries, or cooking your meals. Are you a recluse that interacts with zero workers? Who in their right mind calls someone else out for using a regular service? You'd prefer those people to not have jobs surely.
The planet can’t take any more “conveniences” on our behalf. We need to find a more efficient way of delivering goods and getting our goods. Throwing your hands up and saying “I’ll just get everything delivered” is about the worst option you can do from a logistics perspective to reduce carbon.
If you're annoyed about low efficiency of ordering food, what do you think of vacation traveling, hobbies, any sort of vehicles etc. Most efficiency would be to have no humans with our superfluous wants and needs. Otherwise you're just shaming others for doing things you happen not to like, while forgetting all the useless things you do. Surely you have done consumist purchases that weren't required for your immediate survival or health preservation before.
Yes because carrying groceries by 15m walk to home is surely on the same level as demanding population reduction measures.
You’re the exception.
I would call the entire peninsula from SF to San Jose one big suburb.
Hell, everything West of Gough St in SF is pretty suburb-like: mostly residential, a few shopping streets and no offices.
Despite that there are plenty of areas that are very walkable, including public transportation and shopping for daily needs.
Not every suburb looks like a cluster of single family homes with nothing else within 10 miles.
1) California is a noted outlier. The tax base/road budget ratio does not scale well to the rest of the country.
2) The wealth of affluent suburbs is driven by the cities they surround. The cities generate enough wealth to nominally support the market rate labor that keep them running AND the professional/managerial class that cut and run.
3) The top quintile or two of earners are likelier to live in newer developments, where the cost of maintenance has not built up yet. As regions become older and less desirable, the affluent leave and are replaced by the less-so, just as replacement costs come due. This model is a burden on the state and national levels because it's so prevalent.
If, instead, the model were to have most people living were their wealth was generated - and therefore have amenities scale to means more closely - you would have fewer extremely wealthy individuals and families but a more sustainable and equitable society. I know this is anathema to many, who value getting ahead over getting together.
But the point I'm going on to make isn't just about how stupid the cost of housing is; it's that the high cost of housing comes with extra costs that we might not even see.
How many people would be doing all sorts of neat things, some of which would genuinely bloom into real advances and ideas and genuine new wealth (by which I don't just mean an income; I mean the creation of wealth) if only they could afford some goddamn space in which to do it, without having to move so far from the existing life they have that pays the bills and keeps them alive and sane (by which I mean to suggest that not everyone has the luxury of moving to where there is cheaper space, if their job and support networks won't move too).
Not many, same distribution would apply to that population. Most would scroll tiktok in a larger house.
* There is a rough fixed % of people that are capable of doing interesting things and maybe useful things
* There are minimum levels of resources, time, and comfort that enables you to do interesting things
* The current population that enjoys those resources isn't actually that different from the population at large in terms of that %
Assuming all of that, if you increased the welfare of the entire population to that minimum level (would be nice to do this anyway) then the absolute number of people doing interesting and maybe useful things would increase. I would say that most of human history and esp the past few hundred years has probably proven that to be true.
It is pretty clear from the photos that this young man is very fortunate to have well off and supportive parents. Very few working age adults in full time employment could afford the things shown in those photos let alone someone still in education.
Asimov in the 1950's was quite a visionary. I always liked this.
But I never heard him referred to as "shorty" before ;)
Don't want to be a spoiler but in his visions for an increasingly advanced technological future once the 21st century would arrive, here the dystopian elements that had unfortunately accrued had to be fed to an increasingly conformist society as a utopia instead. No surprise considering the attitude during the Cold War. While the outliers having the true creative potential were subjected to an artificially dystopian environment by comparison, from which only the most-ambitious few would have to break out of on their own accord, against all odds, motivated only by their own committment, to take their rightful place as professionals.
Didn't have to wait until the 65th century to make significant progress in this direction.
>It is pretty clear from the photos that this young man is very fortunate to have well off and supportive parents.
Good observation, and maybe that's about all that's going to be having such an early start for some time to come now. But we don't need photos to be well aware he is vastly outnumbered by tons of more fortunate youngsters who have accomplished absolutely nothing at that age, if not perpetrated destructive efforts instead. Photos of their "accomplishments" outnumber this type of posting a million to one.
Related, somebody referred recently to the device that plays YouTube as the "depression box", because that's what it creates in short order: "I am incapable of anything but scrolling". Yup: "Depression box."
Read: they could make for some very cost-effective innovation.
Lifting other people out of poverty that don't become innovators, would be 'bycatch' from that p.o.v. But still a worthwhile goal.
And how do you know most/many people aren't spending their times scrolling tiktok because they don't have the resources to do something more worthwhile?
Because if that was it, most rich people, rich kids would be all doing crazy science experiments and advancing knowledge. But turns out they don't.
It’s possible that a society that has a more prosperous general population will produce more successful scientists.
https://www.hamiltonproject.org/publication/economic-fact/el...
A tiny house and a small shed/garage would be a huge boon for many aspiring engineers.
"""I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.""" - Stephen Jay Gould, The Panda's Thumb: More Reflections in Natural History, 1980
World population has increased 60% since then, while extreme poverty decreased 66% in absolute (not relative) terms.
So, what I think would happen with more space, is that we would find the next limit, while mistaking the growth that improved conditions lead to as the natural state of affairs.
Personally I'm fine with that, but I get why people might have an aesthetic issue with it. They're of course allowed to compromise on one of the other 2 points to get a better looking neighborhood if they want.
It doesn't even have to be own space... just places like repair shops that let you hang around, maker/hacker spaces would go a long way.
I learned / had so much fun just hanging out at "Radio"(/TV/Tape recorder) Repair shops when I was a kid. Of course most of things i built back there were silly things like lights for my bicycle, longer earphone wires etc... But it is a valuable experience for me.
This was pretty interesting to me as a chemist, and there were even more parallels once I went to work for a company specializing in emerging chemicals, where unending experimentation and innovation was essential to bring yields up to tolerable levels from starting points which were barely feasible. Similar to emerging semiconductor processes.
With all the effort Zeloof has put in, apparently single-handedly for the most part, in his garage he does have what looks like a more advanced facility now than they had then. With the ability to make repairs and do maintenance on the comercially available equipment of the time, to a degree and with determination that the leading professors did not even usually possess.
This is the kind of person that needs to be protected from potential disasters that could derail his continuous progress, especially with such an early head-start.
Very much of an outlier, but there are uncountable others who have always had to wait for the least bit of opportunity which never arose in any realistic way.
That said, as a European the meme of "they started in their garage" always sounded so American. Maybe that's what Europe is lacking in terms of entrepreneurship - garages.
Being able to start small and informally allows many more businesses to start.
Not only do I host my own machinery there, but I have access to others’ and communal appliances and training on how to use them (as long as schedules line up).