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Comment by pajep | Hacker News Reader

For those that are curious and not well verse in research level biology, what kind of food, drink and lifestyle will help maintain a gut biome that prevent Alzheimer

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Fatty fish, most nuts (that don't have high omega-6, which is inflammatory), fruits high in antioxidants like berries and dark fruit in general, colorful vegetable, cooking with olive/avocado/sunflower oil, *kefir* which is the champion of all good microbiota inducers

As for avoiding: red meat (high in omega-6), gluten (chickpea, rice, lentil pasta instead of wheat), cooking with hydrogenated oils, preservatives, processed food, refined sugar

The lists could be much longer. Look up anti-inflammatory diet aka mediterranean diet. What I will say is adhering to this diet has done as much for my inflammatory condition as all the medication. With some foods I feel their effect right away (pork, too much sugar), with some it sneaks up as I let it slip for a few days. So I stand by it.

I'm a fermentation freak so I have to highlight how uncooked fermented foods like sauerkraut and the aforementioned kefir play into anti-inflammation [0].

[0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8147091/

What about Ayran (that salty turkish thing)?

What about pickles? Do pickles fit into the nutrition profile we're looking at (Please, think of the pickles.)

Good news, pickles are fermented, so they are good for your gut!

Ayran, on the other hand, contains a lot of salt which probably isn't the best.

kimchi too?

yes. I had to heal my gut and kimchi and sauerkraut plus the occasional Kefir are great. I also take from time to time zinc L-carnosine and L-glutamine, great for the gut as well.

It's also a good idea to get tested for H Pilory.

Sour red cherries are pretty good anti-inflamatory.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/food-health-you-asked/it-t...

Red meat is not necessarily high in omega 6, and on the contrary grass fed meat can be high in omega 3. Also the debate is still out on whether or not omega 6 is inflammatory or not, and even omega 6 rich nuts are probably health promoting in typical quantities. From my understanding gluten is probably fine for those that don’t have a sensitivity. I think you should caveat your claims about diet since we don’t totally know to an absolute manner yet.

Fair enough, I'll rephrase it this way: most large mammal meat causes inflammation for me and my partner, whereas chicken, turkey, fish, rabbit, etc are all fine (and I should say I used to basically eat meat with carbs). As far as omega fatty acids are concerned, I believe one shouldn't let their omega-6 and omega-9 levels be much higher than omega-3. Gluten is associated with all sorts of issues that I think we will be learning more about in the next few years. There are plenty of alternatives so that one is easy for me. I can still make pasta (chickpea, lentil, brown rice), and use tortillas (almond, chickpea, cassava).

How can you possibly measure inflammation much less attribute it to a single variable?

> How can you possibly measure inflammation

There’s a number of inflammation markers in the blood that can be measured directly via lab test (cRP, ESR, blood cell counts, ...).

Exactly this, I get regular blood work. On top of that, I can feel the inflammation. It is pressure, or warmth. It's a very obvious bodily reaction. Now of course for the average immune system the effects would be more subtle, but could still be noticed in energy levels, focus/attention, etc. And even if not noticeable, low-grade inflammation long term is one of the main factors of age-related decline.

As for attributing a body's reaction to a single food, there's something called the elimination diet where one isolates the variables one at a time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elimination_diet?wprov=sfla1

My understanding is that you need a balance between omega 6 and omega 3 and omega 6 is not necessarily bad if its the right ratio between 6 and 3

Among inflammatory substances, alcohol is the elephant in the room. Cutting out alcohol is the lowest hanging fruit in this garden. Unfortunately, people convince themselves that it is perfectly healthy when consumed in small quantities every day. Anybody who monitors their health/fitness parameters with a smart watch will notice how damaging alcohol is.

Yes, 100%. At some point I started to feel negative bodily reaction from a single beer. I also quit smoking cigarettes for the same reason.

Most of this is conjecture though and should taken with a huge grain of salt (if we’re focusing on Alzheimers specifically)

If we're focusing on effects of diet on immune systems, especially those not functioning nominally, it is quite readily available information now. Was not so half a decade ago. The immune system is affected strongly by gut microbiota health, therefore it is a solid base to assume the same applies dietary considerations apply for Alzheimer's.

I'm going to plug a health model rapidly gaining mainstream acceptance by healthcare providers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopsychosocial_model?wprov=sf... It posits that all factors of life are important for overall good health. The TL;DR is that one needs to consider diet, exercise, socialization, hobbies, etc in addition to whatever medication regimen is helping.

This is impossible to say if you do not know your genetics. For example, being a FUT2 non-secretor will change everything about what you eat. Trust me, I am a FUT2 non-secretor. So in my case I need to eat a lot of seaweed and mushrooms which are both high in fucose (not fructose!).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.60617...

Generalizing but it seems that harmful microbiota prefers glucose but leaves behind bad metabolic byproducts. Whereas beneficial microbiota leaves behind lactic acid? So maybe lactofermented foods will help.

I've been on a journey of hyper-optimisation of my nutrition for various goals (sport performance, health, intellectual performance, etc). Mediterranean diet seem to be the GOAT in most cases

Unless you are Asian, or an Inuit.

Genetics matter. Eat like your great grandmother.

what if your great grandmother had Alzheimer's

If diet had an effect on Alzheimer's, then those patients that have altered medical diets / starve at the end would show improvement, no?

I think this doesn‘t mean diet can prevent it altogether let alone revert it

From the linked article:

"... something as simple as taking fish oils had reduced dementia risk by 9%. This is equivalent to the risk reduction found from quitting smoking. However, the effect is not the same without B vitamins."

So yeah. My summary simply illuminates the pathway/reason why as well as why there are so many confusing comorbidities.

The usual. The way we evolved: Avoid processed foods and move (i.e., exercise). Obviously, only take antibiotics when absolutely necessary.

I should have discovered earlier in my life that prescribing antibiotics is the doctors equivalent of „you don‘t get fired for buying ibm“.

What does processed even mean?

Unless I run out in the field and bite a cow, that meat is going to be processed.

Likewise with potatoes, I'm going to be eating unpalatable starchy uncooked potatoes.

> Unless I run out in the field and bite a cow

Oh, how I now want to invent a new fad diet...

Given the question, I'm willing to bet that running is likely to result in a heart attack.

Every kind of food processing has trade offs including cooking which destroys vitamin C among other things.

White rice was historically missing thiamine (B1) found in brown/hole which was killing off a surprisingly large number of people in Asia as it became popular. Now days foods are often fortified with various things to cover the most common and severe issues, but that’s probably not enough on its own.

In terms of highly processed foods you run into various additives. There’s a long list of minimally studied additives/dyes/preservatives/etc being used only for them to later be recalled and replaced with some other poorly studied substances. Ignorance may be a legal defense for Nabisco adding X to their products, but it’s not going to protect your health.

So, the advice is basically to have the absolute minimum amount of processing steps which is a surprisingly useful heuristic alongside having a varied diet including lots of different plants.

I take it you interpret "save money" to mean keep yourself barely fed, clothed and housed, and otherwise consuming the bare minimum so that you can maximize the amount you put away?

If not, you might want to loosen your interpretation of words in other domains, too.

Industrial processing. As a simple rule, the longer the list of ingredients on the food label, the more processed. The ingredients aren't something you'd normally think of as food? More processed.

Basically don't eat food that comes in a box.

Eat fresh or frozen meats, vegetables, fruits, some whole grains.

In most supermarkets, shop around the perimeter and avoid everything in the center aisles.

Another way I've heard it stated: "single ingredient foods." And as you prepare them, try to keep them that way.

For example, adding a ton of butter to potatoes makes them 10x less healthy. More or less, calorically they become fries. Fries taste great but they should be an occasional treat, not a staple.

Keep in mind that if you buy a bunch of "let's pretend it's not processed" "healthy" foods and use them to cook a meal, you're a) creating an ultra-processed meal, and b) it now has a long list of ingredients, you're just not writing it down.

I found this list really helpful to understand:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/what_is_ultra-processed_...

In 2023 it means...

An apple...not processed.

An ear of corn...not processed.

Oatmeal...not processed.

Frozen peas...not processed.

Breakfast cereal...processed.

Heat & serve meals in the frozen section...processed.

Yogurt with fruit (and tons of sugar) pre-added...processed.

Soft drinks...processed.

Kid's "Happy Meal"...processed.