Comment by metamet | Hacker News Reader

Comment by metamet | Hacker News Reader

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> I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides. In the face of such evidence and against such powerful and widespread belief systems of the afterlife, I occasionally think of the possibility of an afterlife, but there is no hint that I will see anyone I know, or even continue to exist in any form, but rather a long dreamless sleep.

- Carl Sagan, Billions & Billions: Thoughts on Life and Death at the Brink of the Millennium

My father is in pretty good shape (very active), but also very religious these days and he's basically told me nothing in this life matters and he's ready for the afterlife which he believes will be a paradise. The Sagan quote is ironic as he was a huge fan as a younger man.

It's always saddened me that he has trouble focusing on the joys in this life. There's a lot to be grateful for, for those of us lucky enough to live in a secure country with food on the table.

No wonder most if not all religions deny death but promising afterlife or via some other ideas.

It's much easier that way to make people self sacrifice for the religion, gives a meaning to their life and pacifies their fear of death.

Plenty of religions don't demand self sacrifice from their adherents. Polytheist and animist creeds are very different from the Abrahamic faiths that we tend to think of when we speak about religion.

For example, the Tlingit in Alaska believe in reincarnation, but in their tribal way of life, there really isn't any compelling "use" (in the Machiavellistic sense) for that belief.

There is no evidence of Sagan’s theory though, that in death we will be in a long dreamless sleep. In fact, I would argue that the beauties of this life (suggested in his quote) point to an afterlife. To say that our experience here has much love and moral depth, leads one to ponder, why is there anything at all? And on top of that, why do morals and love exist? And why are these things good? The Christian perspective is that “the heavens declare the glory of God”, extrapolated to this discussion, the very things we marvel at in this life should lead to pondering what lies beyond.

The question of “why” could be a human construct. There doesn’t have to be a “why”.

But it seems to be more an observation of the world rather than a human construct. When we look out at the world we see causes and effects. The “why” in this case is asking what is the cause(s) of a subset of effects

cause and effect still doesn’t necessitate a “why”, just a cause. once you start leaving a realm where empirical evidence is not possible, I think you’re more into philosophy which…is a world of its own. in any case, I appreciate the discussion. have a good one!

We simply don't know anything about what occurs after death.

It's possible that there is nothing (the dreamless sleep was just Sagan being poetic I would guess). It's also possible one or more of the many religions are correct.

Actually I think we have evidence there isn't any existence after death. Many religions claims various different things. Does everyone just get their own wish fulfillment? Probably not.

There are various random claims of proof of something happening after death, contradictory and with no real evidence. When there's no evidence, and people make very contradictory claims while claiming absolute evidence but having now, .... it's probable that there's nothing happening. I'd like to imagine my deceased loved ones are still around somewhere, but I don't think they are.

I agree with you on the point that the different world religions make mutually exclusive claims about the afterlife. Ultimately the only way to know what happens after death is to have an authoritative eyewitness. I personally don’t count NDE’s because we have to get into the question of what is truly “dead” (and also gauge the truthfulness of the individuals spiritual experience — that is if they are more than hallucinations)

I take the position that Jesus is that authoritative eye witness — the whole Christian religion hinges on that. I find his claims, the historical documents, and eye witness testimony that’s been preserved from the 1st century too compelling.

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