Comment by MPSimmons | Hacker News Reader

Comment by MPSimmons | Hacker News Reader

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In January, 2022, I experienced a 100% blockage of my Left Anterior Descending artery (a "widowmaker" heart attack), and I experienced cardiac arrest for a minute or two while on the exam table in a local emergency room. CPR was administered, and I was shocked back into rhythm, whereupon I regained consciousness immediately.

During the time I was dead, I have a memory. It is a singular experience of non-existence. Everything was black, and warm, and comfortable. It was silent, and there was no pain or concern for anything that had been going on. I didn't even think about it. It was as though I were in the most effective sensory deprivation tank ever.

Then they shocked me, and it hurt like hell. I woke up, looked at the doctor, and he said, "you went away for a few there", and I said, "Oh, did I?".

A couple minutes later, they "lost" me, and I went back to the blackness, but for a much shorter period of time, and I was shocked almost immediately. I had the wherewithal, upon being shocked, to say, in a very annoyed voice, 'Ouch.' which apparently caused some people in the ER room to laugh.

I ended up crashing 6 times that day, and each time I underwent cardiac arrest, it was like slipping back asleep into the deepest dream.

I used to be afraid to die. Now, I'm not, but I'm afraid to leave behind the people that I love, because I want to spend time with them, and I don't want them to have to go through me leaving them again.

Update: Here's a link to my tweet when I first talked publicly about it - https://twitter.com/standaloneSA/status/1478436334347816960

> I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides. In the face of such evidence and against such powerful and widespread belief systems of the afterlife, I occasionally think of the possibility of an afterlife, but there is no hint that I will see anyone I know, or even continue to exist in any form, but rather a long dreamless sleep.

- Carl Sagan, Billions & Billions: Thoughts on Life and Death at the Brink of the Millennium

My father is in pretty good shape (very active), but also very religious these days and he's basically told me nothing in this life matters and he's ready for the afterlife which he believes will be a paradise. The Sagan quote is ironic as he was a huge fan as a younger man.

It's always saddened me that he has trouble focusing on the joys in this life. There's a lot to be grateful for, for those of us lucky enough to live in a secure country with food on the table.

There is no evidence of Sagan’s theory though, that in death we will be in a long dreamless sleep. In fact, I would argue that the beauties of this life (suggested in his quote) point to an afterlife. To say that our experience here has much love and moral depth, leads one to ponder, why is there anything at all? And on top of that, why do morals and love exist? And why are these things good? The Christian perspective is that “the heavens declare the glory of God”, extrapolated to this discussion, the very things we marvel at in this life should lead to pondering what lies beyond.

Actually I think we have evidence there isn't any existence after death. Many religions claims various different things. Does everyone just get their own wish fulfillment? Probably not.

There are various random claims of proof of something happening after death, contradictory and with no real evidence. When there's no evidence, and people make very contradictory claims while claiming absolute evidence but having now, .... it's probable that there's nothing happening. I'd like to imagine my deceased loved ones are still around somewhere, but I don't think they are.

I agree with you on the point that the different world religions make mutually exclusive claims about the afterlife. Ultimately the only way to know what happens after death is to have an authoritative eyewitness. I personally don’t count NDE’s because we have to get into the question of what is truly “dead” (and also gauge the truthfulness of the individuals spiritual experience — that is if they are more than hallucinations)

I take the position that Jesus is that authoritative eye witness — the whole Christian religion hinges on that. I find his claims, the historical documents, and eye witness testimony that’s been preserved from the 1st century too compelling.

We simply don't know anything about what occurs after death.

It's possible that there is nothing (the dreamless sleep was just Sagan being poetic I would guess). It's also possible one or more of the many religions are correct.

The question of “why” could be a human construct. There doesn’t have to be a “why”.

But it seems to be more an observation of the world rather than a human construct. When we look out at the world we see causes and effects. The “why” in this case is asking what is the cause(s) of a subset of effects

cause and effect still doesn’t necessitate a “why”, just a cause. once you start leaving a realm where empirical evidence is not possible, I think you’re more into philosophy which…is a world of its own. in any case, I appreciate the discussion. have a good one!

No wonder most if not all religions deny death but promising afterlife or via some other ideas.

It's much easier that way to make people self sacrifice for the religion, gives a meaning to their life and pacifies their fear of death.

Plenty of religions don't demand self sacrifice from their adherents. Polytheist and animist creeds are very different from the Abrahamic faiths that we tend to think of when we speak about religion.

For example, the Tlingit in Alaska believe in reincarnation, but in their tribal way of life, there really isn't any compelling "use" (in the Machiavellistic sense) for that belief.

I was present when someone else went through the same experience but they reacted slightly differently than you did…”Please don’t stop CPR! There’s nothing there! Whenever you stop and I die, it’s all black!” His last horrified words were “There’s nothing there!”

I wonder if this reaction was because his brain hasn't yet entered the stage where NDEs normally occur - ie. he was still somewhat conscious and expecting an NDE at this early stage where they don't yet occur?

NDE, also as what I get from the article, seems to be just hallucination.

I also have experience of void, but from serious surgery. It is hard to describe something as simple as absence. But it left deep impression on me that there can be true emptiness. And as other have said here, I'm now not that worried about it.

wow, that's really unfortunate for him. I don't know why I reacted so positively when he reacted so negatively, but I didn't find it disturbing at all. It was a palpable feeling of being "okay" for me.

I take it that person didn't make it?

> During the time I was dead

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting experience however, I don’t think that you were dead. IMHO, you were in a state where your brain was not functioning properly due to lack of blood flow or maybe external input.

All death experiences seem to be something of that sort and I suspect if body transplant was a thing, the experience would have been similar.

I think the correct description of the experience would be pre-death or something similar and would not be a glimpse into the “life beyond death”.

I don't think I have grounds to argue against this take.

I think the definition of death changes over time as medical technology advances in its ability to return someone to "life".

If your brain is working well enough to have thoughts about its experiences, I don't see how you could call that death when people whose brains are not working that well at all, are alive.

It's also important to remember that we don't know what we experienced in the past, only what our fallible memories of the past are. This applies to more than just near-death experiences.

It’s an open question in many (most?) of the reported NDEs as to whether their experiences were contemporaneous with their “deaths”, or rather their brain’s retrospective backfilling of the period when it was oxygen-starved and neurotransmitters lacked the ability to regulate their concentration and flow. I’m not a neuroscientist (or any kind of scientist) but I don’t think the consensus involves approaching reported subjective experiences from a presumption that they reflect the literal experience of death in the more permanent sense.

I think the naming fruits test with the headphones was meant to cover this. The evidence seems to point at "nobody formed memories of language sounds while they were flatlining", the one correct answer matches expected random chance.

Wasnt there something on here recently about EKG signals an hour after cardiac arrest?

I had similar experience where my heart stopped beating and went into complete darkness, apparently it was a reaction to something they were doing a tissue sample. Nonetheless the experience was very similar but I was only 14 then, so I didn't think much of life or death then.

Now almost 3 decades later, I really don't think that dying is what I'm most worried about, really I just don't want to die before my dog or my wife. That said, being quite influenced by stoicism I do remind myself that I could die any second and I always live such that I won't have any regrets if I die any minute. Memento Mori.

Did you experience brain death? Because that kinda sounds like the sensation of losing all contact with the peripheral nervous system, without actually losing consciousness.

Don't know. There was no brain monitoring going on. When I crashed, the tech was still trying to put on the EKG leads.

If they had experience brain death they wouldn’t be here talking to you.

> Death is the permanent end of all biological functions that sustain a living organism. It is no longer defined as the cessation of heartbeat (cardiac arrest) and breathing, as CPR and prompt defibrillation can sometimes restart both. In modern medicine, when a definition of the moment of death is required, doctors and coroners usually turn to "brain death" or "biological death" to define a person as being dead; brain death being defined as the complete and irreversible loss of brain function (including involuntary activity necessary to sustain life).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_after_death#Deat...

TL;DR - you don’t come back from actual death, or you didn’t actually die. There’s no coming back from all biological function ending.

Loss of consciousness is not death, your brain was alive the entire time. It takes upwards of 10 minutes before the brain dies, usually longer, and each minute approaching those thresholds has a high probability of severe brain damage. Check out cerebral anoxia or brain death to learn more.

If you were expecting actual death, then no revived person has ever experienced death because they weren't completely dead to begin with, even if tissue damage happened. Let's compromise on near death experience.

I’m basing it off of people saying they died, and they didn’t, because like you said, you literally can’t come back from death. What was described was loss of consciousness/passing out, and it’s odd so many people pass out and claim they died.

I read quite a few reports claiming the similar experience, a deep sleep. That's how I view death now, a sleep so deep that no one can wake up from it. With all external inputs are muted, the brain left itself alone in the "void", doing what brains do, fade to "dreaming".

But then again, I imagine one could experience almost the same when under anesthesia or just regular sleep, so I guess you don't really have to do it the hard way :)

They say life is the space between two black eternities.

I suppose we already know what death is like: exactly the same than before we were born, vast non-existence.

> During the time I was dead

Semantic correction for this and all similar recollections: You are alive to tell the story, so you were, in fact, not dead.

I got better. ;-)

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