Comment by Shekelphile | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Shekelphile | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

> In addition to the very high number of bugs in Apple's implementation

Many of those 'bugs' remain unfixed to maintain backwards compatibility, not because Apple doesn't want to fix them.

> the fact that it is officially deprecated sends a message to anyone wanting to do new development on MacOS “don't invest in OpenGL now as we could pull the rug under your feet” and it's done on purpose to push developers to Metal.

As it should be.

> So now they can only blame themselves if they're losing games because the developer doesn't want to invest in Metal either.

There's nothing to 'invest' in. Metal is by far the simplest low level graphics API out of all I've used and it would not be hard for valve to write a source 2 rendering backend for it (few days/weeks at most for an experienced dev). There's plenty of AAA games being properly ported to apple silicon now and in a year or two there will be many more. Valve intentionally withdrawing themselves from the ecosystem is purely out of spite.

> it would not be hard for valve to write a source 2 rendering backend for it (few days/weeks at most for an experienced dev).

Put your money where your mouth is and write one. Just write one. If it's that easy, do it.

Which is more likely - a company that dumps tons and tons of resources into Linux, Wine, DXVK, and put out the Steam deck didn't do this supposedly easy thing because they just don't care or could it be that they don't have the talent in house and wouldn't recoup their investment by doing it?

> Put your money where your mouth is and write one. Just write one. If it's that easy, do it.

I can't because source 2's source code isn't available.

> Which is more likely - a company that dumps tons and tons of resources into Linux, Wine, DXVK, and put out the Steam deck didn't do this supposedly easy thing because they just don't care or could it be that they don't have the talent in house and wouldn't recoup their investment by doing it?

They don't have the talent? That's funny, considering Valve ported all their games to macOS many years before they ported to linux.

> They don't have the talent? That's funny, considering Valve ported all their games to macOS many years before they ported to linux.

Using OpenGL, not metal, thought. There's a good chance that they don't have a single developer knowing metal.

Sure they could learn, but then there's the next part of the sentence you're responding to: it's unlikely they wouldn't recoup their investment by doing it.

> I can't because source 2's source code isn't available.

Perhaps then refrain from telling everyone how easy it as when you have no idea what’s going on in the code.

> That's funny, considering Valve ported all their games to macOS many years before they ported to linux.

Are those people still at the company? Either they are not or they’re doing a piss poor job at advocating for their platform.

> Perhaps then refrain from telling everyone how easy it as when you have no idea what’s going on in the code.

I've been reverse engineering source engine games and modding them on and off for the last ~15 years, I almost certainly know more about it than you.

> I've been reverse engineering source engine games and modding them on and off for the last ~15 years

> I can't because source 2's source code isn't available.

No contradiction at all here…

Source code for source 1 has been available for 20 years. It's been fully leaked multiple times and an official SDK with limited source is also available. There is no contradiction.

> Many of those 'bugs' remain unfixed to maintain backwards compatibility, not because Apple doesn't want to fix them.

Backwards compatible kernel panics is a interesting idea for sure…

Also, talking about backwards compatibility when discussing about Apple is pretty ironic as well.

> As it should be.

Can't complain if Valve don't follow them on that then.

> There's nothing to 'invest' in. Metal is by far the simplest low level graphics API

That doesn't change the fact that porting the game engine to it is still a massive undertaking. It doesn't depend on the graphic API itself that much, but more about the size and complexity of the rendering engine.

Valve isn't stupid, if it was profitable to do so, they'd do the investment anyway, but do not because it doesn't make financial sense.

Apple isn't entitled a free port of popular games to their walled garden. Developers may do it if it's profitable, but that's it. If Apple wants to bootstrap the gaming use case, then it's on them to make an effort.

> Valve intentionally withdrawing themselves from the ecosystem is purely out of spite

“Boohoo stupid Gabe does that out of pure naughtiness.”

I hope you realize how childish your statement is.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com