> So I agree with some other comments here. No it's not really a choice.
Literally hundreds of millions of Americans retire on much less than than BigCo compensation.
Let’s revisit this comment in 15 years or so.
Can they sustain a medical emergency?
Can they pay for their kids college?
I'm sure some can do all this. But I'm pretty sure most can't.
This is a strong indicator that choice is a factor, despite your protests to the contrary. But what exactly do you mean by "standard of living"? For example, when you're employed, you have to live where the jobs are, no matter how expensive, unless you can get remote work. Whereas when you're retired you can live anywhere, perhaps a place that is both less expensive and warmer.
Retired people seem less obsessed with collecting more material goods (which are often "labor saving" devices, of little relevance to those who aren't laboring) and focused more on enjoying life, traveling, spending time with family, etc. Is that a "worse" standard of living? And the children are presumably living on their own, so there's less need for bigger homes. (Who wants to spend a bunch of time, effort, and money maintaining a big house when you're older and also traveling quite a bit?)
> Can they sustain a medical emergency?
Have you heard of Medicare?
> But I'm pretty sure most can't.
Based on what? Do you have economic statistics to back up your belief?
I'm not gonna dive into stats for that since I'm not an American, but I would be thoroughly surprised.
How much do you think you need? I think the recommendation is something like 10x your current annual income.
> I'm not gonna dive into stats for that since I'm not an American
How is your nationality relevant to reading stats? If you don't want to, then just say that.
> How is your nationality relevant to reading stats? If you don't want to, then just say that.
Sorry maybe I wasn't clear, but that's exactly what I meant. I won't dig into stats for the US because it's of no interest to me. That's why I mentioned I'm not from the US.
I know that for my country that's absolutely not the case and I'm pretty sure it's the same for most of the world.
You appear to be overlooking Social Security, which is a crucial source of income that all US workers pay into their entire careers. It's not just savings.
> I won't dig into stats for the US because it's of no interest to me.
Yet it's interesting enough to you to make baseless empirical claims about the US.
> I know that for my country that's absolutely not the case and I'm pretty sure it's the same for most of the world.
That's not the way the world works.
The US is not that different from everywhere else... we all live in the same capitalist hellhole last time I checked.
Which claims? That Social Security exists? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States... That Medicare exists? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States) That 10x savings is the recommendation? https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/retirement/how-much-do-i...
> The US is not that different from everywhere else
Says you, but you apparently aspire to live and work here, so it's different enough.
> we all live in the same capitalist hellhole last time I checked.
Have you checked North Korea?
Never said that. It's just where tech salaries are bigger.
>Have you checked North Korea?
What does this have to do with anything? Unless you're writing from North Korea, this is childish.
Apparently I hit a nerve and that was not my intention. My point was never specifically about the US but you keep insisting on it and have a bone to grind. That doesn't add to the conversation though.
You said: "I don't live in the US, but if I did I would grind all the leetcode (as insulting as I find them) for one single reason: I don't want to work forever." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37809983
My first reply to you was to that comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37810176
The HN thread history doesn't lie. Your point that I replied to was specifically about the US.
You could replace that with whatever country could offer those salaries.
>43.09% of American adults had no retirement savings >23.15% of American adults had no (or negative) retirement savings even including the extended assets
https://dqydj.com/average-retirement-savings/
Of course you can rely on some government assistance but arguing that's a good enough standard is a bit of a stretch.
No, you changed the subject. You said:
> You're telling me most retired Americans have more than hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings?
To which the answer is no, but you don't need a million dollars to retire.
Whereas your link is not about retired Americans, it's about UN-retired Americans: "Statistics are for households headed by adults aged 32-61 at the time of the survey".
I'm done with this conversation. Your games and lack of good faith interest are becoming very tedious to me.
Yes, and the point that everyone is trying to explain to you, which you refuse to acknowledge, is that in general, software developers in the US are doing fine. They don't need to "grind all the leetcode" and work for a BigCo. It's a choice not a financial mandate. Software developers, even outside of BigCos, are in the upper income brackets in the US.
I'm not saying that everyone in the US is doing fine as far as retirement is concerned, but the idea that software developers have to work for BigCos is absurd. I've never worked for a BigCo, and I'm doing fine.
Anyways, yes you have the choice of not working on big corps. My point is that it's not a real choice unless you want to accept all of the consequences of leaving all that money on the table. You have to accept the risk that you might be a few emergencies away from bankruptcy.
Finally admitting the truth.
> You have to accept the risk that you might be a few emergencies away from bankruptcy.
Working for a BigCo doesn't magically protect you from emergencies. Accumulating $millions might protect you, but you don't just walk in the door of a BigCo and pick up your treasure chest. You have to work there for many years. In the meantime, you're subject to the same risks as everyone else. For example, lot of BigCos have been doing layoffs recently, which would put a big dent in the "for many years" plan. Also, if you suffer some kind of disability that prevents you from continuing to work, then you're screwed regardless.
Anyway, what makes you think you would be BigCo material? Not everyone is. The number of jobs is limited, and the competition is fierce. You might be able to get in the door by grinding leetcode, but once you're in the door you still need to make management happy in order to keep your job and win pay raises. The grind doesn't end.
> So I agree with some other comments here. No it's not really a choice.
From the very beginning I said it's not really a choice, but I always acknowledged it. Whatever, your pedantry wins.
> Anyway, what makes you think you would be BigCo material?
I can't really know since I'm automatically excluded from it simply because of I don't live there (and I would never work with a visa, having a corporation ruling over my life). But it's very possible I wouldn't make the cut, or if I did I'd likely be another one writing blog posts like this one - assuming reality is how they portray it.
Technically I know I can hold my own, but that's not really what work is all about in my experience (barring few exceptions). Connections, ivy leagues, kissing ass, leetcode and other aspects that shouldn't matter are valued more than actually getting shit done.
But I'd sure as hell try because even though it's not a guarantee of protection, it's as close as we can get to it in a capitalist society. Money is, unfortunately, crucial.
I certainly am. I was taught as early as grade school (mid 00's) that Social Security would run out before I retire. I take that strongly to heart.
I think that it may be just the opposite. From what I've observed, access to good public transportation is a major contributor to quality of life in old age. In the US, that requires someone to live in a much higher cost of living location.
What have you observed, and are your observations anything but anecdotal?