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Comment by JamesLeonis | Hacker News Reader

> It’s just not your typical consumer.

My only disagreement. I think many people don't know they want something better because they've never used something better. The video in the link describes how the users do short texts to get around the problem [0], including deleting whole blocks of text instead of editing. Teenagers, parents, and many others communicate heavily through texts and are often "up and down" like management/business users. On the whole I believe many people would benefit from a better text editing experience.

[0]: https://programs.sigchi.org/uist/2021/program/content/61484

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I miss my Blackberry for typing.

The tactile feedback of real keys was so much better than haptic screens.

Yes, a big part of the problem is that so so many words need editing.

I updated to ios17 excited about the new transformer model, and it still predicts absolute BS words I’ve never used in my life.

I definitely remember typing working better on my iPhone 5 which was 20% smaller so I don’t know what’s gone wrong, but it’s gone really wrong and the fixes also suck.

I had the first SE, and it initially handled mixed language text correction phenomenally, but went downhill with each update, which was really puzzling

I agree although I have never used a Blackberry. I have used a dozen of smart phone models in the early 2000s, either with physical keyboards or resistive touch. And then the iphone came and everybody moved to capacitive touch. It might have some advantages, but precise working is not one of them. I still hate it 15 years later what shitty products we have to use despite of all engineering efforts buried in them.

Remember T9? I haven't much experience with it—I'm young. But it was a much more pleasant experience than the current experience with touch screen. Swiping works, but I feel it requires too much cognitive energy. As soon as a conversation is taking longer than this paragraph, I tend to call the person instead.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T9_(predictive_text)

T9 was so terrible I didn't use text messaging until I got my first iPhone.

Actual Keyboard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Touch screen typing >>>>>>> T9

T9 was terrible for you.

You could literally type the message without taking the phone out of the pocket because it was extremely predictable and you knew the menu structure by the gut.

It's more like T9 wasn't terrible for you. There's a good reason it died off. Touch screen keyboards are better for 99% of the population.

Agreed, I would routinely text without looking. I do now too, with SwiftKey, but it's much less deterministic.

I tried t9 when I in the name of simplicity went for a Nokia candy bar. It was utter shit. I think it only worked because there was no good alternatives back then.

I got downvoted a lot when I mentioned missing T9 previously.

It could be nostalgia, but I was pretty quick and generally accurate sending short messages.

Not sure I would want to type a document on T9.

Agreed I remember being faster than my friends who preferred the “abc” mode. Not sure if all phones did this but my phones would sort the words by frequency of use for each combination of button presses so T9 kept getting faster the more I used it.

This. Ever since I lost the physical keyboard of the blackberry, I have had to accept to live with a significant and constant productivity hit when it comes to writing more than a couple of words on my touchscreen phones with the need to avoid typing errors. I failed to master the act of writing on a cellphone, contrary to typing on a physical keyboard.

I have seen people type blazingly fast on touchscreen phones though, albeit I didn't run error stats on their output. I accept that I may lack some skills needed to become better at this, but seeing others highlighting that this is a problem to them is not surprising to me, based on anecdotal evidence.

E.g., I knew someone who added to his email signature a permanent apology for typing errors giving the justification that he was typing on a touchscreen device.

All in all, I agree that the problem is real, and havging had experience with a working solution (physical keyboard) I wonder why there appears to be no business case today for such devices.

Sounds like a small, niche but very real market and product: A keyboard case with Bluetooth (but security!) or USB-C.

Bonus points for e-ink-based keys.

Edit: Realistically I’d be surprised if something like this doesn’t already exist.

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/bbq20-keyboard-with-track...

What about an updated BlackBerry Torch 9800?

That looks pretty cool, and others must’ve thought that as well because it’s sold out.

Some of the immediate things that came to mind were making a case that integrates the phone with the keyboard; and a small battery to extend the life of the phone since the keyboard adds to the formfactor anyway.

Bonus points if this creates a market for a small phone again (iphone 12 user here).

The way cursor movement by touch was implemented on BB10 Wwas also the best I've ever used on mobile. Some kind of adaptive zoom and tap to move by one position.

For me it's the original Motorola Droid and Droid 2. The slide-out keyboards have been the best mobile text editing experience I've had.

It’s funny, as I was writing this comment I thought, “it’s almost like they need to make a blackberry for the smartphone era - oh wait…”

This is why I own a Titan Pocket. Physical keyboards are simply superior.

I desperately miss my HTC touch Pro two and its slider keyboard. It was a dream.

I want a modern touch pro from Google - slider keyboard, no bloatware or Samsung apps, nice big battery and modern screen, one nice camera, proper landscape support all over, and 5 years of updates.

I don't need 15 cameras or ai anything. Heck make it a battery + keyboard case that goes on to a pixel and does a decent typing job and I'd buy it.

The more experience I get in the working world, the more I realize that the hardest problem is finding people that see there is a problem.

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