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Comment by hackermatic | Hacker News Reader

The cultural differences about this are vast even in the United States. In the part of the Midwest where I grew up, strangers would come up and offer compliments about your outfit or car, make friendly small talk in the grocery store checkout line, or at least offer a quiet "hi" and smile when passing on the sidewalk. In the Pacific Northwest, we try not to even look at each other when passing, although people are friendly when something does get us talking.

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This is pretty on the nose for me. My wife and I moved from a Chicago suburb to Portland about 5 years ago. The amount of effort required just to strike up a convo with strangers (and keep it going) was pretty significant. We especially missed how acceptable giving people "the business" (i.e. harmless joking or razzing to lower someone's guard and make them feel comfortable) was so common where we grew up. You could give someone sh*t for something trivial then end up helping them remodel their basement.

It was isolating for a while until we sort of gave up and accepted that people are just different out here. There's nothing wrong with that, but we're moving back to Chicago (for other reasons). We're looking forward to not having to jump through hoops just to have a meaningful convo with a stranger again.

Which area/suburb of Chicago?

We had a house in Villa Park. I grew up in Tinley Park.

Orland Park, represent! :)

Nice! I spend most of my adolescence at Orland Square. Tinley Park folks went to Orland to shop and Orland Park folks went to Tinley to buy a car.

And which area of Portland? I've had generations of neighbors who I've never spoken with, or just hello'd. None that I've even sat down to dinner with.

We're in NE (Eliot neighborhood). We've lived in our current place for about 3 years and have also barely spoke with our neighbors. I think I've only seen the next door neighbors about 4 times.

For the record, I'm not trying to get into a 45 minute convo. It would just be nice to have a little friendly banter from time to time. I appreciate that different places have different cultural norms, otherwise the planet would be a very boring place. But getting consistently iced out by strangers is kind of a bummer.

Edit: typo

Giving people shit, in a friendly way, is part of the Midwestern use of irony. They like to say the opposite of what they mean when it's assumed to be understood that is the case. "You're getting here soon, right?" "Nah, I'm stopping at a spa in Gary, Indiana." Something like that.

Those who aren't used to it often don't appreciate it.

100%. That is a perfect example and I'm looking forward to more of it when we move back. In addition to irony, there's also exaggeration. My wife thinks it takes me longer than normal to tie my shoes, so whenever we're about to go somewhere she'll say something like "We're leaving in 20 minutes so you should have started putting your shoes on 10 minutes ago."

This matches my personal experience. When I moved from Boston to Austin it was like night and day how different interactions with strangers were. Strangers in Boston kept to themselves and when you approached them it would have an air of “what are you trying to sell me?” in which their feet were already pointed away from you and they were prepared to keep walking.

On the other hand, Texans are far more open to speak with strangers and shoot the shit with people in public. There’s less rush to keep moving and people are far more open to chatting.

My theory is that population density may have an effect on this behavior. Boston is far more dense and when you ride the train or bus everyday people keep to themselves. It’s far more emotionally draining to keep interacting with everyone that you meet so people conserve their energy.

Density is attractive to individuals who want to exploit as many other people as efficiently as possible.

For example, in the downtown areas of Canada's densest cities, before smartphones, about 90-95% of random strangers coming up to me wanted money, either as beggars or seeking donations for some "charity". The other 5-10% would generally be asking for directions or the time. Even those interactions could have always just been a ruse to see if I have a watch worth stealing, or as a distraction to help enable pickpocketing.

Since smartphones became widespread and nearly everybody has access to the time and directions on their own, pretty much 100% of the time I've been approached by strangers in public is because they want me to give them money. One person mistook me for somebody they knew.

It's just not worth me spending any time responding to random strangers because it's almost guaranteed they just want money.

This doesn't really explain the PNW social freeze in places like Bellingham tho.

> Density is attractive to individuals who want to exploit as many other people as efficiently as possible.

> For example, in the downtown areas of Canada's densest cities, before smartphones, about 90-95% of random strangers coming up to me wanted money either as beggars or seeking donations for some "charity". The other 5-10% would generally be asking for directions or the time.

That's selection bias.

You are interacting with the most desperate, entrepreneurial, and lost people, who are not a random and unbiased sample of the whole city.

What part of Austin are you in? I unfortunately moved to the yuppie part of east 6th and it’s decidedly less friendly than other places I’ve lived.

Density is a factor in this for sure, but I think weather/climate is also a factor. It gets cold in Boston in the winter for example, and in the PNW it's raining and on the cooler side for a good chunk of the year. In those climates people tend to want to get back indoors quickly and not loiter around, and that carries over even into the warmer months.

Try going to Minnesota or Wisconsin. People are extremely friendly and want to chat. It’s almost a cliche.

I think it’s something other than weather.

No one is friendly in urban areas because you are getting accosted / hustled so often. If a stranger tries to talk to me I have to give an ocular pat down and risk assessment before engaging beyond a skeptical glance.

> I have to give an ocular patdown

hold it right there, jabroni

Are you sure that you don't want to make some extra money on the side by joining my MLM? You can do so from the comfort of your vacation home timeshare! And if something happens to you, do you really have the term life insurance that you absolutely need?

> No one is friendly in urban areas

Yes, this is mostly an urban/rural divide. I've lived in several small New England towns where people talk to each other in public all the time.

But I've also lived in Boston. And I've learned that if a stranger strikes up a conversation in Boston, there are two possibilities:

1. They need directions or emergency aid.

2. Or they have absolutely no grasp of appropriate social norms, and I am about to have a deeply weird conversation. At best.

In theory, I am perfectly happy to speak with strangers on the subway. In practice, I do not wish to hear about how lizard people rule the world.

Dead set, you should give the weirdos a go. If you listen to them, they'll often have some genuine wisdom, and they usually don't mind if you laugh at their crazy theories or disagree.

The PNW can get to talking eventually but it’s like pulling teeth before it catches.

Maybe a better analogy is starting a lawnmower.

I’m inthe PNW and feel this is largely situation dependent. Was camping in Oregon last weekend and was surprised by how many different groups of campers were conversing at length with one another. When on/around my boat at the marina it’s common for folks to chat openly.

In my neighborhood it’s very much the opposite and there’s little/no eye contact and chatter.

Socialization in the PNW is highly hobby/activity oriented. It's immediate common ground and usually a recreational context.

Day to day is more much reserved and insular as we go about our business.

That's what I've noticed, too -- even casual trail walkers are much more likely to greet you and smile.

Is that why most advice you see online is to go rock climbing or hiking to meet friends?

I wouldn't say it's PNW specific where that's true but in my experience those types of things are great ways to meet people and build social relationships. It could also be through any other sort of recurring activity like friday night magic or a local code meetup etc.

Edit: the downside of this, in my experience as well, is getting pigeon-holed in some activity with others. Especially when something like alcohol is involved

Growing up in Oregon, it's just the way it was that we socialized with people we met through work/church/school/hobby, but not neighbors. I've lived next door to people for decades and not even met them face-to-face.

Many years ago, I was riding on a nearly empty city bus. A guy got on and sat not too far away. After a bit, he looked my way and sidled over to be in conversation distance and said, "Excuse, I moved here from Florida about two months ago. Nobody here will talk to me, and I'm starting to go crazy. Is there something wrong with me?"

The replies to this comment illustrated it well, but yes, I would agree in general. It just gets tiring when you have to go do something to have a simple conversation.

i.e, random convos in bars here are not a thing - or at least not comparable to e.g the east coast of America.

Don’t people go to bars to socialize??

I have never experienced talking to a stranger at a bar - one goes with ones friends, and gets to know them better, but nobody known to nobody ever gets added to the conversation.

What? That sounds really strange. Nearly every time I’m at a bar I end up in a conversation with someone new.

I've been in bars all over the world, ranging from Tokyo to NYC to SF to now Seattle - with plenty of other cities in between.

If you'll pardon my french here: the PNW is the most clique-filled bar experience I have experienced worldwide and it's really very boring to deal with. You can make it work, but it winds up being more work than is ideal.

I've found that campers/hikers anywhere are generally very approachable.

For sure, one of the best parts to me about being in a National park for example is how happy and stoked on life everyone is

Because every one knows they'll never have to see each other again.

Funny this is mentioned and maybe there's some truth to it. One thing that struck me about the culture from an extended trip to Mexico City a few years ago is how often people say "hasta luego"/"see you later" for transactions - even if they're total strangers. I found it very warming and a contrast to where I'm from. It makes sense as a farewell but think people take it more literally - to the point where people have responded "uh not really" to my own "see you later".

One of the funniest lines of Dumb and Dumber to me is "well big gulps eh, see you later!" [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_j5tDuakKU

It might be a factor, but I don't think that's the main reason. If you're an outdoorsy type, you have that immediate common ground with fellow campers, and have a whole host of starter questions pertaining to that interest that will usually kickstart an entire conversation. Same with the marina-goers: boats are an interest that you can start a convo with. Makes it easy.

I live in a small mountain town now, and it's unthinkable you would walk past someone on the sidewalk and not say hi.

Walking your dog ( its cute and small) makes a big difference.

It also reduces the number of people with bad intentions who will approach you. A dog may be cute and small, but they are also fast, bitey, barky and very good on picking up threats.

Maybe, though I’ve had a group of high school aged kids larger than me threaten to kick my small dog, and I was genuinely confused how to act. On the one hand, I didn’t want my dog to get hurt. On the other hand, I wanted to confront them even though it would have been a losing battle and a threat to my dog’s safety. If I was alone I would have acted differently. But so would they.

Tell them you formerly had a larger dog but had to shoot it when it viciously attacked someone.

the mother of this dog is still busy mauling the last guy that tried to kick her puppy.

The hej thing is common in some Scandinavian countries, but people don't strike up conversations with each other nor do they make new friends easily.

'Hei-hei' here where I live in Norway. Or 'God morgen'. Or more likely 'morgen-morgen', which is pronounced something like morn-morn. Much like in England where we might say 'Morning!' with a smile.

> Or 'God morgen'

pronounced goo-morn in Danish, and written godmorgen :D

Geographical differences certainly ring true but I think it’s a bit of a generational thing as well?

I think it’s a sunlight thing

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