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Comment by jjtheblunt | Hacker News Reader

the thing is, historically, if you already make laptops (and they 20 years ago had a pcmcia slot in which a verizon, etc, cellular modem could fit...i had one), and you already later make iPhones, then it's a short jump from iPhone logic board to iPad.

it's a longer jump to get a cellular capable antenna complex in an all metal (think semi faraday cage) aluminium unibody.

point is, it's historical artifact originally.

now, a decade later, perhaps the BOM thing is just enough motivation to not do it, or the ubiquity of "hotspots" via cellular lessens the appeal at scale.

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> then it's a short jump from iPhone logic board to iPad.

Its arguably an even shorter jump between iPad and MacBook Pro today - the architecture of both products is incredibly similar now.

> it's a longer jump to get a cellular capable antenna complex in an all metal (think semi faraday cage) aluminium unibody.

You mean just like the aluminium bodies already present on the cellular iPads? Or several generations of iPhone? This excuse doesn't hold either.

cellular ipads have an RF transparent band on their edges.

ipad and iphone also have antenna designs integrated with the body design, which currently is only true for wifi and bluetooth in the above mentioned laptops.

are you wanting a plastic band atop the laptop closing screen, to get a cellular capable antenna in an otherwise metal body? perhaps that's just not a priority with enough customers.

> are you wanting a plastic band atop the laptop closing screen, to get a cellular capable antenna in an otherwise metal body?

I'm almost certain Apple's world class hardware team can integrate a cellular antenna to an aluminum laptop in a way that is visually pleasing, yes. This isn't some insurmountable problem we are positing here.

I mean, that same hardware team designed a fundamentally flawed keyboard to shave like a millimeter from the laptop height.

that's the industrial design group, which was entirely distinct from the rf hardware world.

it probably would help if you'd listen to a person from the world class hardware team in question who worked in exactly this world for years, spanning all the devices discussed. that person might have strongly insinuated the law of nature challenges constraining propagation of RF at widely varying frequencies as they are paired with the esthetics challenges from a different group, if you noticed.

The iPad itself and competing MacBook/MacBook Pro-like aluminum laptops from other vendors (Dell, HP, etc.) are existence proofs.

You didn’t read the discussion of the cellular ipad having the plastic band, or that prioritizing no plastic band is a problem if you want antennas capable for useful cellular reliability

No, the cellular iPad and other devices are indeed proof positive. The exact same cellular window solution could be applied in a redesign of the MacBook. No one is disputing aluminium blocks radio waves - the dispute is your constant argument it can’t be done because it would require a giant RF window - there is no reason a future design can’t neatly incorporate an antenna system, just like it has been done on many other aluminium devices - including iPads, iPhones and Apple Watches.

Having built 5G systems for hobbyist computer boards (Pi etc), the antenna required is not so very large either.

A MacBook is not and has never been a seamless block of aluminium - there are plenty of design choices to be made to help hide or minimise any antennas.

Yes it’s possible IF the case is changed. Bear in mind different bands (as cellular ios devices support) can force a different antenna geometry than a single band (regardless of coding schemes).

Your “plastic band” argument- indeed, most of your arguments on this- fails to acknowledge the pleasant reality of the ipad pro’s.

My 2020 ipad pro 11” does not have that unsightly plastic band, nor the iphone 15 pro.

As far as aesthetic elements, these enclosures appear essentially as metal and glass, an appearance not markedly different than existing macbook appearances.

Even the iphone mini 13 manages to fit effective cellular arrays in its compact form sans the big plastic bands on those ipads you mention. And despite its diminutive size, the mini 13 can still manage a reliable call over cellular for hours at a time. With the greater real estate offered by the macBook form factor, there are broader options for effective antenna arrays and also their power supply versus phones and tablets.

> are you wanting a plastic band atop the laptop closing screen, to get a cellular capable antenna in an otherwise metal body?

Is this why the LTE capable Apple Watch has a red ring on the crown? I assumed it was just a status cue.

Regardless, I would be completely happy with Apple having to make a compromise on the case like they do with the iPad.

Are these cellular antennas really that much different from the wifi antennas that are already found in Apple laptops?

Yes.

it's a huge topic, antennas are tuned in physical geometries for wavelengths, etc.

this is a fun rabbithole

https://antenna-theory.com/

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