Comment by johnnyanmac | Hacker News Reader

Comment by johnnyanmac | Hacker News Reader

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>Have you even made a small game with gdscript? If Godot doesn’t meet your needs then there are dozens of other game engines to choose from, some are native c#.

This dismissal of honest performance benchmarks is why I'm glad you're not leading Godot. We're not talking about some esoteric cloth simulation code being nitpicked. These are core architectures issues costing you 2x performance minimum, simply due to how the c++ and C#/GDSctipt/GDExtension layers talk.

Take this as a warning, not a dismissal. Unity went down this exact path and we see how viable it became for large scale game development. I sympathize with you for those who are outright trashing the GDScript for being a scipting language, and I do wish those arguments would die down (it's simply language wars). But there are definitely fixes here that would improve all diferent bindings, even if they never diverged (which IMO, they should).

>This is like showing up for dinner and insulting cooking before you’ve even tasted the meal

cooking is subjective (mostly), performance is not. This is more like asking why the cook is trying to carefully drain out the water with a loose lid instead of using a strainer. Sure, it may work for the cook and they've done it all this time, but I'd rather give a safer solution that won't burn them long term, or spill out excess food.

> This dismissal of honest performance benchmarks…

No, I was criticizing premature optimization. I explicitly stated “there are definitely opportunities to improve Godot”. I took offense to devs joining the community and nearly immediately proclaiming ‘this is all wrong and you have to do it my way.’ Well, if it’s not right for you then move on, thanks for visiting.

If we’re to be so focused on performance then why not ditch c# also and only use c++ or rust exclusively? Better memory utilization, better processor performance[1], and no more garbage collection stutters. Oh right, it’s not your preferred language.

I’d rather we all just make games instead of fighting language wars, but seeing so many of these posts in the last week makes the community feel hostile.

[1] https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/rust-vs-c...

>I took offense to devs joining the community and nearly immediately proclaiming ‘this is all wrong and you have to do it my way.’ Well, if it’s not right for you then move on, thanks for visiting.

The author has already crossed the part out suggesting to remove GDScript. Which was overblown as it was one of 3 different suggestions.

Either way, even for the rude provocateurs, two wrongs don't make a right. I've follow Godot with a loose ear and it's not a surprise that there are significant performance issues in the engine. I'm glad someone is digging deeper rather than just saying "Godot isn't ready for 3D" and dismissing opportunites to grow.

>If we’re to be so focused on performance then why not ditch c# also and only use c++ or rust exclusively?

Because you didn't get to the part of the article where it is mentioned that GDExensions uses the same api bindings as GDScript. So they are all affected by this, no matter what binding you make. Your only recourse is diving into the guts of Godot and rearranging how it works. Which is first of all, already in flight by the core team (redundancy) and secondly, not a kind of change you can easily PR in if you want to contribute (which is more hostile to the engine than any random post on social media).

And yes, this is the dismissal I'm talking about. "well just use another engine" is a pretty bad approach for a growing community when receiving honest feedback with benchmarks to back it up. The author makes a long post detailing the inner guts of the engine and people cherry pick one conclusion they don't like and want to push the author out of the community.

I appreciate that the author crossed out his suggestion to remove gdscript vs removing it. I will give him credit for transparency. That doesn’t negate the original intent.

I am aware of the part about how this affects bindings for all languages. My point still stands that this is premature optimization. The author even admits, “In some projects 95% of the CPU load is in an algorithm which never touches the engine APIs. In that case, none of this matters.”

So again, if this is about performance then why not remove c# as well? If we’re to “tear it all down and start again” we might as well do it in rust. Oh? If I want a rust game engine I should look at Bevy. Is saying that really a second “wrong”?

I don’t have anything against this author specifically. I respect that they did more than simply look at the showcase screenshots to make their assessment. My initial comment was more a general expression of frustration with the prevailing attitude on various forums. I like reading r/godot to see individuals creating games, not creating grief. (Frankly, I found the Unity memes to be a bit mean spirited as well.) I acknowledge my initial comment did nothing to remedy the situation but I was tired of hearing it. I have since stopped reading that subreddit. Enjoy your c# crusade.

>My point still stands that this is premature optimization.

Given that the author knows they will make hundreds of raycasts a second, and that the perf suggested that they can at most make 700 for an entire 16hz frame, I can't agree in this case. This is the exact kind of "we'll fix it later" kind of unoptimization that makes gamers wonder why games still hit 30fps on modern hardware (I've worked on such a tile, in UE4. the engine doesn't save bad practices and useage).

>My initial comment was more a general expression of frustration with the prevailing attitude on various forums.

don't generalize your rants when you see a good example of criticism. That just lumps in the good with the bad and makes you look like you're lashing out at any criticism.

>Enjoy your c# crusade.

Enjoy prowling r/godot, I suppose. If that's the conclusion you gleam out of my comments, you fit right into Reddit. Making unrelated rants and being confused on the disagreement and seeing everyone as out to make your life specifically, miserable. Glad I left that behind months before it became fashionable to leave.

> I took offense to devs joining the community and nearly immediately proclaiming ‘this is all wrong and you have to do it my way.’

Is this in response to the article in question? Because they are spot on with their assessments and those API issues need to get sorted. They impact bindings and all extensions including C++. The core devs seem to concur on this, it's just a matter of how it happens.

I was generally frustrated with the parade of posts about how bad Godot is from former Unity devs. This happened to be the article that I commented on.

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