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This happened to a friend in Houston Tried to pay for parking and it didn’t work and when we got back it was booted

An hour of illegal parking should never warrant a 160 dollar fine to remove a boot.

If you arrived at a store and the self-checkout was broken, would you just walk out without paying for your items? Since parking is their business I would never do something which look like stealing without some kind of protection like a recording from someone at the parking when I called. It’s just not worth the risk, otherwise, and you can always park somewhere else where you don’t have to worry.

But there are no items here. The payment is just for time, and if payment isn't working then parking there doesn't cost them anything or cause them any inconvenience.

The good for sale is the parking space. If your vehicle is there without a receipt, using it without paying looks exactly like stealing unless you can show that the property owner allowed it. You can say that the payment system was broken but they’re just going to say that’s an excuse and you just didn’t want to pay, etc. – life is way too short to spend trying to argue things like that versus just going somewhere else. Most of the possible outcome involve you paying considerably more, and the ones which don’t are only cheaper if your time is free.

> The good for sale is the parking space.

Yes, but if you want to compare it to a store then everything in the cart has to be something that will expire in an hour, and the shelves restock whether or not anyone buys them. And there's nobody around that can fix the self-checkout or check you out themselves.

> life is way too short

I'm only here to talk about the analogy you made, not give advice on parking.

None of which changes the fact that you can’t use property which doesn’t belong to you except on the owner’s terms unless there’s some kind of legal right such as the “right to roam” laws in many European countries. There is no right to store your car without paying for it so there’s no gray area here.

There's some gray area because charging on entry would be better, and if you can't pay with actual money that's a real problem.

But I wasn't arguing that, I'm saying it's not like theft.

It’s theft of service, which is definitely not identical to theft of property but I think the analogy is useful because more people understand that a business screwing up doesn’t mean you get their products for free - it means you go somewhere else.

It especially doesn’t mean you have any expectation not to be treated poorly by that business the way you would if you’d complied with your side of the legal agreement. If you’d paid and the business failed to track that payment properly, you’d be getting serious compensation because there would be a legal contract they weren’t honoring.

> legal right such as the “right to roam” laws in many European countries.

What are these laws you speak of?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

It varies but the general idea is that large landowners have to allow some access for hiking or even camping.

Thanks

It was really weird as an American going on hikes through private land and realizing that the owner couldn’t just haul off and shoot you.

If I walked into a store (meaning it was open, not locked), and the self checkout was broken, and there was no other checkout, no staff member there to collect money or explain how to pay, no jar saying “honor system”, nothing…

Then yea, I would probably walk out with my stuff, knowing I had made a good faith effort to pay.

That’s called stealing, even if you have a rationalization. Until money changes hands, you don’t have a right to someone else’s property and their permission is conditional on payment.

No one is arguing that they don’t have some right to recourse. Just that booting and charging a ton of money to remove is excessive and an invasion of that person property.

If it was the city, sure, but it’s private property so this feels like complaining that a hotel charges a hefty cancellation fee for no-shows. Yes, it’s eye-watering but short of passing a law capping this I don’t think there are options other than not accepting the terms for use of someone’s private property.

That's the scam right there.

Step 1: Break parking pay station.

Step 2: Boot people's cars for not paying for parking.

Step 3: Profit!

Nothing canned air and a mini sledge can't fix.

> I contacted the bank the next day and they said they don’t contract with anyone for parking enforcement when they are closed.

So this means that you can start a business and simply put a boot on any car almost everywhere ...and people just have to pay???

These aren’t big corporations. This was literally just a guy in a pickup truck and a few boots.

I paid because I wanted to get the boot off my car. I also then warned someone else away before they got a boot and the boot operator started screaming at me. All pretty shady.

You clearly interfered with the operator's method of income -- which is booting cars and then holding them for ransom.

If things work this way the solution seems to be relatively simple in that you put a boot on the booter's car and demand at least as much to take it off as the booter demands from you. When the booter approaches you to get his pound of flesh you take your pound of steel out of the boot (pun intended) and lock it to his truck. If he starts getting physical you call the cops and/or defend yourself. Given that this seems to be a form of legalised extortion it should be fought, not rewarded. Also, next time there is something to vote for vote for the politico who promises to do away with these practices.

Wicked, if anyone put a boot on my car and he was not employed by the city, I'd call the police to take care of it.

The police would not help, these corporations, however scummy, are seemingly authorized to do this. The police would just tell you to pay the fine.

Yes and no.

I had a cop help me try to cut an unlabeled bike lock off my bike.

The business had double-locked it to a rail I'd locked it to, because apparently that was forbidden. Unfortunately, there was no sign, so I had no idea.

Cop and I worked on it for awhile, then he gave the security guard an earful for not leaving a message.

Side note: of all the bike locks, braided are by far the most annoying to cut, because they're impervious to bolt cutters.

I am specifically assuming that the corporations in Atlanta that put boots on cars are permitted to do so via a public private partnership, and the officer would tell you to contact the corporation to deal with it. I doubt any similar situation exists with bike locks, so I don’t see that as comparable.

I'd take an Uber to Home Depot, pick up a 3" grinder and cutoff wheel and be on my merry way.

And a gun, worn on your belt.

People underestimate how many locks/doors a 3" grinder and some time can open.

The beauty of it is that it's an economic argument... in order to make something impervious to grinding, you'd generally have to make the thing too expensive for its primary purpose.

It’ll be faster to pull up a video of the Lockpicking Lawyer and grab a paper clip.

The locks on these things (and other things) are 99% of the time abysmal.

the lockpicking lawyer on youtube has a video showing how to pick a boot

Can't you remove it with a battery powered angle grinder? I'd carry one in my trunk.

In about 5 minutes of grinding, yes: this is the correct move.

LPL's method took under 20 seconds and used under $20 worth of tools. I don't know how much skill it took though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrL5tqFczPE

> It’s done by private orgs, not the city. There is no ticket. Just a boot and a fine to pay to remove the boot.

So you can expect that "thanks" to these girls, the city will give authority to these third party companies to put a boot on the car and make it illegal to remove it? I don't foresee any other pro-people action: the easiest is to make it illegal to remove a boot.

From the article, it sounds like it already is:

> “While owning a boot key is not illegal, here is what the public needs to know,” reads the department’s Facebook page. “If you use a Boot Key to modify, tamper, or disengage a booting device from a vehicle, you can be charged with: Criminal Trespass, and/or Theft of Services, and/orTheft by Taking, and/or Damage to Property 2nd Degree.”

Even if these are from third parties and not the city itself?

I read comments here of people who got their car "booted" (not sure what verb to use:) ) by not authorized companies.

How do you even know what is authorized and what is scam?

What a nasty issue, to be honest.

That was my biggest complaint. There’s a lot of rules around towing, but booting is all over the place and not really regulated.

There’s a bill in the state assembly to make booting illegal. It didn’t pass this year, but the representative claims they will reintroduce it again. It’s already only legal in a few small areas.

It’s more likely that booting will stop altogether than new, pro-boot legislation will pass.

I hope so for you guys. I personally don't have experience with this extortion around booting a car, but, wow.

It's incredible sometimes to hear that this happens in a modern city/country.