Masked 'boot girls' are freeing booted cars in Atlanta
roadandtrack.com
roadandtrack.com
The first article linked is more informative for those who are hearing about this for the first time. https://abcnews.go.com/US/atlantas-rise-car-booting-prompts-...
What's the penalty for immobilizing someone's car? If they're free to put a boot on my car because it's on their property, why am I not free to remove a boot from my property?
"A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she intentionally damages any property of another without consent of that other person and the damage thereto is $500.00 or less or knowingly and maliciously interferes with the possession or use of the property of another person without consent of that person."
That sentence isn't the best, but I think it could be argued that it can be parsed as:
"A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she <does this thing> or knowingly and maliciously interferes with the possession or use of the property of another person without consent of that person"
Unlocking it is arguably interfering with the use of the property of another person without consent; but is it malicious? Can't find a clear definition of "malicious" in Georgia law. I guess this is why lawyers get paid so much.
But taking a programmer’s look at paws like this is ill advised. These laws are there to smooth the process of the state enforcing whatever the most powerful lawyers involved in a particular matter want. No more no less.
Much as someone could interfere with use a car by locking something to it rendering it immobile, perhaps. If locking the boot to it isn't a crime under the very same law, unlocking it surely also isn't.
I do agree that the law is whatever a lawyer can successfully argue; I bet there are lawyers who can successfully argue that unlocking the boot isn't criminal trespass.
The Early Days of American English
Since, in this case, they would only be doing so because a cop asked them to. Of course not sure how that fits into drug/prostitution stings.
1) Entrapment can occur if it can be argued suspect has no pre-disposition to commit a crime
2) Government actions caused a normally law abiding citizen to commit a crime
If you are effectively running a hotline and taking orders to commit crimes, those won't apply to you.
Good comic from a lawyer on the subject: https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=633
It’s done by private orgs, not the city. There is no ticket. Just a boot and a fine to pay to remove the boot.
These boot girls are charging $50 or something. The fee to remove the boot is usually 85-200+.
Personally, I’m happy to pay these people any amount over paying the super jerk boot people.
I had a guy put a boot on my car while I was walking over to pay the parking box. He wouldn’t remove it until I paid $85.
I had another boot put on my car from a bank’s parking lot. The bank was closed, the lot was open, there were no signs or attendants. Just an open lot. The boot operator claimed he had the right to boot but would not produce any documents. I paid $160 to remove my boot. I contacted the bank the next day and they said they don’t contract with anyone for parking enforcement when they are closed.
Atlanta booters can all go bankrupt for what I care. These ladies are heroes.
An hour of illegal parking should never warrant a 160 dollar fine to remove a boot.
Step 1: Break parking pay station.
Step 2: Boot people's cars for not paying for parking.
Step 3: Profit!
Yes, but if you want to compare it to a store then everything in the cart has to be something that will expire in an hour, and the shelves restock whether or not anyone buys them. And there's nobody around that can fix the self-checkout or check you out themselves.
> life is way too short
I'm only here to talk about the analogy you made, not give advice on parking.
But I wasn't arguing that, I'm saying it's not like theft.
It especially doesn’t mean you have any expectation not to be treated poorly by that business the way you would if you’d complied with your side of the legal agreement. If you’d paid and the business failed to track that payment properly, you’d be getting serious compensation because there would be a legal contract they weren’t honoring.
What are these laws you speak of?
It varies but the general idea is that large landowners have to allow some access for hiking or even camping.
Then yea, I would probably walk out with my stuff, knowing I had made a good faith effort to pay.
So this means that you can start a business and simply put a boot on any car almost everywhere ...and people just have to pay???
I paid because I wanted to get the boot off my car. I also then warned someone else away before they got a boot and the boot operator started screaming at me. All pretty shady.
The beauty of it is that it's an economic argument... in order to make something impervious to grinding, you'd generally have to make the thing too expensive for its primary purpose.
The locks on these things (and other things) are 99% of the time abysmal.
I had a cop help me try to cut an unlabeled bike lock off my bike.
The business had double-locked it to a rail I'd locked it to, because apparently that was forbidden. Unfortunately, there was no sign, so I had no idea.
Cop and I worked on it for awhile, then he gave the security guard an earful for not leaving a message.
Side note: of all the bike locks, braided are by far the most annoying to cut, because they're impervious to bolt cutters.
So you can expect that "thanks" to these girls, the city will give authority to these third party companies to put a boot on the car and make it illegal to remove it? I don't foresee any other pro-people action: the easiest is to make it illegal to remove a boot.
> “While owning a boot key is not illegal, here is what the public needs to know,” reads the department’s Facebook page. “If you use a Boot Key to modify, tamper, or disengage a booting device from a vehicle, you can be charged with: Criminal Trespass, and/or Theft of Services, and/orTheft by Taking, and/or Damage to Property 2nd Degree.”
I read comments here of people who got their car "booted" (not sure what verb to use:) ) by not authorized companies.
How do you even know what is authorized and what is scam?
What a nasty issue, to be honest.
It’s more likely that booting will stop altogether than new, pro-boot legislation will pass.
It's incredible sometimes to hear that this happens in a modern city/country.
I realize it's always an unpopular opinion to be pro-parking-enforcement, but to be honest, I'm always glad to see a car booted. Some people think they have a god-given right to leave their car wherever is convenient to them, it's nice to see at least some of them face consequences.
Don't get me wrong, I am totally in favor of parking enforcement, and wouldnt have even been that upset to take the hit and pay the fine. Instead, I had to both pay the fine and wait an hour in that parking lot until someone (working for the boot company) came to unlock the boot on my car (and i was lucky they weren't busy that night).
The city should have these folks on payroll instead of constantly contracting this stuff out.
Yes, even on private property because it’s adjudication between two private properties (the car and the parking lot)
Pretty bad.
If they can double profits by being dirty and give 60% of their profits to the city, then everyone wins except the citizens.
If the profit motive could be aligned with actual progress, somehow objectively measurable then contracting might makes sense.
I think the appeal to privatization is sometimes corruption – when we lived in New Haven, at least two of the city’s tow contracts always went to cousins of council members – but mostly it’s the hope that magic pixie dust will avoid the need for competent oversight. As you noted that only works out when the incentives align, and I don’t see that here.
Note that it's private parking companies, not municipal agencies, doing the booting.
One time in Berkeley I parked in a parking lot and walked across the street to pick up some food. I was gone 5 minutes and when I returned there was a boot on my car. There was an attendant in the parking lot who informed me it was private property and only for the businesses next to the parking lot. They wanted $150 to remove the boot. This wasn't city parking enforcement, it was a private party.
It's basically extortion. I get that they're trying to discourage non customers from using the lot, but it wasn't obvious it was restricted and clearly if they have someone in the lot full time, they could have warned me instead of immediately holding my car for ransom. Especially since I'm not from that area and I'm not familiar with local parking rules. It's purely an expensive trap.
I don't think this case should be legal.
Should it be legal for people to do the same in your kitchen?
There is nothing immoral about what these girls are doing, IMO. There are a LOT of boot lickers in this thread today.
The $50 covers the cost of travel, tools, advertising and personal risk.
If these girls had an app, they'd qualify for Y Combinator.
Immobilizing the car is a ludicrous solution. Someone left something on your property you want them to remove- and the solution is to prevent them from removing it?
Were there large signs, fences and gates to suggest it was private?
I used to live across the street from a park with public parking, and a business with a private lot. I saw people park in the private lot all of the time because there was no signage indicating it was private. It never became a problem for anyone, but the point is people make honest mistakes.
One works for the collective, the other against the collective.
As a "citizen" who is pretty firmly anti-car within urban areas, my views on who is working for and against me are going to differ from yours.
I don't necessarily agree with the actions the Tyre Extinguishers are taking, but I definitely sympathize and appreciate the end-goal.
On the other hand, as a "citizen" who wants parking within urban areas to be less subsidized, I don't agree with skirting enforcement for fines around illegal parking.
Putting the collective before the individual has a name... and it is...
> “While owning a boot key is not illegal, here is what the public needs to know,” reads the department’s Facebook page. “If you use a Boot Key to modify, tamper, or disengage a booting device from a vehicle, you can be charged with: Criminal Trespass, and/or Theft of Services, and/orTheft by Taking, and/or Damage to Property 2nd Degree.”
These are private booters. No one has ever been charged. Atlanta police barely respond to real crime, much less this.
It would be interesting to see what happens if the booter hires an off duty cop to charge the boot girls or write them a ticket. I expect it would not result in conviction, much less even prosecution.
And the ticket would be on the boot girls, not the person who hires them.
I think the risk would be if the cops were in on the racket or got some kind of bribe “dukes of hazard” style. But the boot industry doesn’t make enough money to pull local cops and politicians in.
Ah, missed that part. Thanks.