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Comment by dreamcompiler | Hacker News Reader

Although I generally like Technology Connections, I've always found that particular TC video hilariously wrong. Every dishwasher I've ever owned has been basically a sterilizing machine, not a cleaning machine. I always wash all my dishes by hand to the point where there is no visible food on them before I put them into the dishwasher, because if I don't do that half my dishes come out of the dishwasher with food crud still on them.

And no, I'm not talking about crappy, dirty, worn-out dishwashers. I'm talking about state-of-the art modern dishwashers. I thought it was normal for everybody that you had to wash all your dishes by hand before putting them in the dishwasher. I thought TC was basically making a big joke, but after TFA I'm thinking maybe dishwashers do exist (or did exist?) that actually ... wash dishes?? And don't take 4 hours to do it??

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Dish washers clean dishes. If they aren't doing so for you, you're doing something wrong. I have never rinsed dishes. The only time something comes out dirty is if it's an oven pan that has something fiercly burned to it, or a pot of milk or something that I burned.

I think some dishwashers are somehow worse performers than others. In the flat I was in before, the landlord installed Ikea dishwasher was terrible (I don't know who was the actual manufacturer). If I'd put a butter knife in there that still had traces of butter going in, they would still be there coming out. Somehow, this even happened when using the 70 ºC program. I even tried using the most expensive pods, for the same result.

In the new flat, equipped with some mid-range Siemens, I don't have this problem anymore. I use the exact same pods, same butter, and same knives. Hell, even the "quick 1h 45º" program gets rid of pretty much everything, even using the cheapest pods.

Are you mis-loading them? Unusually hard water? Wrong detergent?

Every surface you want washed needs line-of-sight to a sprayer, so it's quite possible to load a dishwasher in a way that doesn't work properly.

Certain things are particularly sticky. People used to make glue out of fish for a reason; the one thing I will pre-wash off plates is fish skin.

What are you talking about? This is either a US thing as usual or you are being duped.

I've always thought clothes washers washed clothes but dishwashers don't actually wash dishes and everybody knows it. I thought it was just a universally shared joke that everybody was in on, like "Grape Nuts contain neither grapes not nuts, and dishwashers don't actually wash dishes because of course they don't."

Only now I'm beginning to think I've been out of the loop.

I think you've been very unlucky with dishwashers.

Yeah, you have definitely been out of the loop. I’ve used at least 5 different dishwashers in the past 20 years, and never had a problem with them actually washing dishes after just scraping off the food. Once in a while I’ll have an issue with something stuck on a utensil that was nested with another in the silverware bin, but that’s a loading problem not a dishwasher defect.

Using modern, mid-range dishwashers, I barely need to touch them before loading them. It was hard to break the habit of pre-washing, but that uses up a lot more water than the dishwasher itself (and energy, if you use hot water).

When I did clean them before washing them, so to speak, the short wash cycle would be enough. (Now I use the sensor cycle.)

I've never done more than scrape the large bits of food off my dishes. My current dishwasher is probably 10 years old.

What you're describing just isn't normal. There are some possible explanations. You might have really hard water. You might not be using high-quality, enzymatic dishwaster detergent. It's also possible that there's something wrong with every dishwasher you've owned, I guess.

Our dishwasher washes dishes just fine, and it's just a small crappy countertop model

Sounds like you are choosing appalling dishwashers. I don't even rinse my plates and they coe out absolutely fine. If they don't I know the filter needs cleaning or the machine needs servicing.

Having used dishwashers on three different continents (US, Europe, Asia), I can attest that they definitely do wash dishes. The only caveat I would add is that when my mid-1990s vintage US dishwasher broke, the modern replacement seemed to be far worse. The cycles took longer and dishes came out dirtier. I always suspected it was some energy efficiency mandate that ruined the dishwasher experience in the US as I have had no such issues in Europe or Asia. Maybe I'll try different detergents next time I'm back in the US...

> I always suspected it was some energy efficiency mandate that ruined the dishwasher experience in the US

The three biggest changes I've experienced:

1. Water usage has gone WAY down, especially for energy star washers. You may see 2.5 gallon pre-rinse/wash, 1 gallon rinse cycle usage now. Heavily soiled dishes are relying on the filtration system to remove the particles rather than spraying gunk back on the dishes.

2. Post-rinse drying cycles use hot water and evaporation/condensation (via stainless steel tubs) rather than hot air. For ceramic/glass this is perfect, but plasticware will not get properly dried.

3. Pre-wash detergent cycles have started to go away. I suspect this is because the additional agents in pods have made the pre-wash cycle less effective. However, this means there may be even less time before the main wash cycle for water to heat - it is hard to tell if there is a rule whether to delay washing until it has water to temperature if the source water was cold.

Energy is a factor for sure ( most of the article goes into why), and also environmental.

Dishwashers (and clothes washing machines) used to use phosphates, but those detergents have been banned for residential use at least in the US.

I will routinely make pancakes, have a glass measuring bowl with pancake batter still in it, throw it in the dishwasher, and it comes out clean.

Did you test the recommendations?

I’m able to put dirty dishes in mine and have them come out clean.

There's industrial dishwashers used in kitchens that do it in minutes!

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