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that's putting it too far - they are free to leave or quit as they wish. Unlike the true modern slavery of which is migrant workers (like described here https://www.antislavery.org/world-cup-2022-the-reality-for-m...), where their passports are confiscated, etc.
H1B is exploiting the rules for cheap labour. It does benefit the H1B holder - since they would otherwise not have signed up. The losers in the situation are the local workers who expect to be paid higher, but is out-competed by these foreign workers.
The H1B is a “dual intent” visa, meaning you can apply for permanent residency while you have it. But you must maintain your H1B the entire time, which can be a decade or more for folks from places like India. You can transfer an H1B but it’s not easy and if you quit your job you must line another one up in 60 days or say goodbye to the life you’ve built yourself in the US. Some employers are happy to take advantage of this.
1. H1Bs are _auctioned_ instead of raffled. You really need that H1B? Prove it - pay for it. 2. Sponsoring companies are responsible for cost of living for that employee for the entire duration of their H1B. That obligation can be transferred to another company.
3. (Bonus) After reaching a certain threshold of "taxes paid to the U.S." (maybe 300k or something) H1B holders _automatically_ get their green cards. No questions asked. If you can take that much of their money, they can be citizens.
As for #2, the main issue now is more of supply and demand. The US only gives out 140,000 employment based green cards a year (plus some from other unused categories), which also includes the worker's families. There are far more ways to get an employment based green card than through H1B. The problems we're hearing about are less to do with the process (which _is_ byzantine) and more to do with that there are not enough green cards to go around.
And just as an aside, there's no labor certification for an H1B, e.g. a company isn't saying they need that worker so so much. A company just wins the lottery and agrees to pay at least what the DoL says is the prevailing wage for the occupation. If they later want to get a green card for that employee, they have to redo the prevailing wage determination AND make an attempt to hire an citizen/GC before they can get the GC (or the employee has to prove they have exceptional skills that gains them international recognition, among other things which includes "being paid way more than your peers")
I think this is a good idea in general. One of the main complained about immigration is some supposed cost to the barely-existing US welfare system. Having a minimum lifetime tax before getting access to that seems like a decent compromise to calm down the xenophobes
If we understand the act of giving a green card to mean the US wants that person to join the society for the long term, is "taxes paid" really the best measure of desirability?
Well, the downside is for the companies exploiting migrants and those are the ones donating money to the people who make decisions. Lobbying is legally bribing them and the effect is that the politicians don't represent the people who vote for them but the corporations.
And No, this is not a cynical take but a factual one.
The current estimate for Indians is 140 years [0].
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/united-states-green-ca...
Just to further complicate it, for many people _your employer_ has to apply for permanent residency on your behalf which is another 2 year ordeal and fair bit of money (that's just to get the green card priority date, not to mention waiting for the green card itself which varies by country). And that further indentures you since if you leave during that period you effectively abandon that application.
And I’m saying this because there are places like Dubai where you very often get your passport taken on arrival, can’t leave the state and can’t really go work somewhere else. There is a lot more to say, but that qualifies as “modern slavery”.
i mean, this is meant to be a jobs visa. The fact that if you quit said job, you no longer have a reason to be given to stay, seems pretty normal. You are free to leave, it doesn't mean leaving is consequence free.
I love when authortiarians use degrees of coercion to say "well technically YOU ARE free. But not free from consequences".
It's such a disingenuous line of argumentation.
When your passport is confiscated, you get arrested at the airport.
When you are tired of your H1B job, you can just leave. The fact that you lose your position in the queue for a potential PR is irrelevant.
It isn’t, it’s a dual intent visa. Job and path to permanent residency.
the gov't doesn't intent this visa to be dual purpose. It is a job visa first and foremost, and the path to PR is at best a secondary concern for the gov't.
On an H1B you are free to leave whenever, and under certain circumstances forced to.
It’s a black and white difference. I don’t grasp why it’s hard to understand.
Now: the system can own a slave.
If an H-1B worker does quit their job, or even if they get fired, they have a very tight deadline under the immigration laws to depart the country. This applies regardless of what financial obligations they may have as a renter or homeowner and regardless of the situation of the rest of their family.
And if after their job ends they rush out of the country to meet the immigration deadline, any lingering ties to the US will make it harder for them to convince CBP to let them re-enter on visitor status, so the departure may in some circumstances be either temporarily or permanently one-way as well as rushed.
The severity of this disruption forces many H-1B workers to meekly put up with a lot more abuse and mistreatment at work than must US citizens, LPRs, and those lucky few categories of nonimmigrants whose work authorizations are not tied to their employment. Agreed, it’s not slavery, but it’s not full freedom either.
A more humane approach would be what Canada does: holders of Canadian employer-specific work permits who quit or lose their job are legally allowed to remain in Canada until their current work permit expires, although not to work for a different Canadian employer without first receiving a new permit. They can rely on this predictability of legal status in the country when signing leases, planning their children’s education, and other matters. And it often gives them far more time than the tight US deadline if they want to find a new employer who agrees to sponsor a subsequent work permit for them.
H1B, L1 etc visa schemes make you indentured to the system. The longer you stay and invest in your home and social life (which as a human you have to, otherwise you become a mindless drone), the more you are indentured to the system. Indenture is built into the visa contract – you cannot quit your current employer and stay unemployed even for a short period of time – even though you did contribute social security every single month, even though you paid all taxes every single month – you get no benefits.
So, you are in constant fear of losing your job and having to throw away your entire investment here. This means you will be pliable in many ways you would otherwise not be. You can be denied promotions, you can be given shitty/grunt work, you can be given borderline unethical work, you can be asked to fire other people in unsympathetic ways, you can be asked to work weekends and nights without any overtime pay, you can be asked to travel very long distances for work in economy class and so on and you shall not complain.
You can only suffer silently until you get another job. Btw, you cannot get any random job you like. You have to get a job where the employer is willing to go through the rigmarole of visa process - which narrows the field significantly.
H1B might not meet the legal definition of modern slavery even though many are trapped just as effectively by the system but everyone in evolved with employing them is morally compromised just the same.
It's a very exploitative situation with extra steps where there's little they can do to protect themselves once in the country.
They can just endure until they're out of it.
The occasional civics lessons done over lunch in my career have been eye opening in more than one way. Interestingly, many H1B's are allergic to unionizing as well. Probably another facet of the demand for more of them.
They're exploited nonetheless.
Your entire comment defending exploitation is and insult to anyone alive.
Disgusting semantics game to defend what the US and other countries do with migrants. You're trying to shame people when you're the one who should feel ashamed.
Its not that uncommon an argument to encounter today on the Right.
That is a very ignorant and US centric view of something that has been practiced for millennia all over the world.
Technically, that varies. Slavery is as old as humanity itself and it exists in different forms. It's not even unheard of for a slave to be wealthier than his master, although, of course, this is more of an exception. What I'm trying to say is if someone isn't picking up cotton in the american south, it doesn't mean they cannot be enslaved and don't need help
I also know a handful of people who make less than $25k/yr. They struggle more, but they still get by.
$50k/yr, $25/hr may be chump change to a big tech company engineer with a degree from a prestigious university, but it's a very normal hourly (non-overtime) wage (maybe even on the high side) for a lot of regular people.
Addition: For example, journeyman electricians average $24/hr in my state.
I was an account manager at a MSP making $25 and I remember seeing a sign for a rural bar “line cook wanted $25/hour”. Tried to use that as a bargaining chip to show him how bad it was and he told me to go work at the bar if I wanted the same money for less work. No, I’d like to be gain experience and be treated like a professional, please.
Point being, $50K ain’t shit. Even in rural areas.
That should’ve been your hint to start looking for a new role asap. If negotiation fails, bounce as fast as you can.
Is this only true in big cities? Is this true at all?
Median household income in Florida is $62k/yr. This includes the 13% of our population of 22 million who are in poverty and the about 7% on government food assistance (SNAP). I have personally lived on less than $20k/year as a younger, single man with low cost housing.
Florida is in the bottom third of states by median household income. DC, Maryland, and some of the northeastern states have median household income in the high-80s to just over $90k, but no state in the US is at $100k median. California is at $85k/yr.
To answer your question, HN has a higher than average population of young, childless, city-dwelling people with good education, well-paying careers, and relatively expensive tastes ($8+ cups of coffee, etc.) If they suddenly made the median salary for their state, they would likely struggle financially for a bit.
For anyone on the globe able to go through a Google job interview that's also not going to be really that much.
There was a shift in salaries during the pandemic when more companies opened to hiring remote workers.
What's laughable is how out of touch you are. US median personal income among workers who work full-time year round is about $56k.
But do you know what other American thing that's also tied to jobs? Health insurance. American health insurance is also modern slavery.
At the same time, it was obvious that having h1b engineers gave the managers a lot more power to overwork them and prevented them from speaking out.
"Motivated" can be one of those euphemistically loaded words. Am I "insufficiently motivated" when I refuse to cross an ethical/legal/moral line? Is an H1B who has their residency on the line "more motivated" when they're totally okay with crossing that line?
Also, here's another little thing you don't get told about H1B and everyone just assumes you you know: any H1B you manage is only supposed to be able to work in their state of residence, and you, the employer are supposed to enforce that.
Think about that from a native's point of view. You:re drawing a box around this person and basically saying "you must stay here and work". Whereas I just move around and do what needs being done wherever it's conducive to being done from.
Sure, call me privileged, but it's awful bloody draconian when the System demands you implement a surveillance mechanism on their behalf over your workers.
Maybe I'm just a bad employer. These things just really leave a bad taste in my mouth. Point being always track all the outputs. Often the desired ones are the ones no one wishes to direct your attention to.
Modern slavery exists. See things like Uyghur camps, people sold to work until death on Thai boats or exit visas in Saudi Arabia.
Having a choice to work for money or (gasp) return home is not even remotely the same? To put them under the same label is to discount the actually bad stuff.
Especially with Chinese and Indian H1Bs, the wait for permanent residency can be so long that they may have spent over a decade in the US with no meaningful connection to their country of origin, with all their friends and immediate family here.
The point is that the system creates a similar sense of entrapment as slavery. The fact that it isn't literal slavery doesn't make it not an exploitative practice worth fixing.
That phrase would stop being okay if death was something that happens not to you but to poorer people in other countries. See the difference?
Comparing your privileged life with really bad events that happen to others makes light of them. There's a reason things like "omg it's like a gas chamber here amirite?" are often frowned upon and Auschwitz is stuff of the past but slavery happens today.
Also, sorry but the last part about "similar sense of entrapment", when the worst that can happen is you leave it's not entrapment, actually the opposite of. I myself am on a working visa, yes if I get fired I go home where I'd rather not be, but I'd never have the gall to compare it to literal slavery as long as it's happening...
So yeah sorry to hear but it's one of those many sucky situations in life. The lack of options is illusory. Mental issues are mental issues, slavery is slavery, misfortune as a free person is misfortune as a free person.
Sounds like grounds to sue for the "messed up" process? If not I assume if whoever it is worked 20 years in the US they have experience that can be valued in many countries. I'd recommended checking around the more reasonable ones like Canada or Australia. As free person can.