* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling
* https://www.vox.com/2020/6/6/21282509/george-floyd-protests-...
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling
* https://www.vox.com/2020/6/6/21282509/george-floyd-protests-...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went...
They do have horses though which are scary AF. Once you got a panicked horse playing rodeo with it's rider while chasing you through an alley, you know what immediate panic feels like.
Edit: I found horses worse than the crowd panic, breathing and eye issues after CS gas was released. And despite water cannons engaging is a very dramatic moment, I cannot imagine how it must feel when police give warning shots or even fire live ammo into the crowd (even you don't get hurt). Musst be a completely different level. Luckily I have never been in a situation on which police was even near such an escalation.
Source: a coworker was on the police force for 10 years in London.
The UK police forces literally invented rubber bullets, and used them very liberally, and lethally, against protestors in Northern Ireland [0]. Just because they go easy on some climate march you were at in London doesn't mean they never take it further.
[0] https://rubberbullets.longlead.com/chapter/rubber-bullet-his...
[0] https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/violence/rubberplasticbulle...
So yes, suddenly being trapped inside and facing riot police can be scary. That's by design.
But when you know the details, you can say quite easily, if there is any real danger of violence, or not. Usually it isn't.
But violence can sometimes erupt spontaneously though, so be aware (and fast) if you are close. Also, if you are good with words and kettled in, usually you can convince the police that you are just a tourist passing through (don't ask those, who face the heat, go to the quiet corners and ask someone in charge who does not look stressed out, the low ranks won't let you through, if they have the order to block everyone and their superiors are watching, so rather ask those a little bit higher up, but not too high, or find someone who is not being watched)
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-poli...
Apart from that, why would they?
But I suppose you think, I must choose a side here?
Hell no. The common antifa that I got to know, is made up of hypocrite, messed up people as well and is often standing for left wing totalitarism.
To clarify, I am a antifashist, but the term antifa, stands for something different now.
Peaceful protests against nazis I will join. But those demos I talked about, were rather action events.
The police were so incredibly violent after that, they had total control and very little restraint. And there was local news or police media team ready to catch every act of desperation from the protestors. But very little of the state violence made it to the news. They were singling out people filming, smashing phones, arresting anyone nearby. I remember stumbling into a corner and falling to the street and seeing it already covered in blood and mucus and teeth, and thinking "that's more teeth than one person has in their head wtf happened here."
And then having to come on the internet every day since and hear about the "rioters" and looters and lawlessness and shit.
- surely this does not work in all cases, only those where protestors are still convinced of the lawfulness of a peaceful protest, exploited by the threat actors (police)
- what is the maximum size of a "kettle?" can this be exploited by creating an oversized kettle such that it would "burst?"
- could kettling trigger a violent fight-or-flight response depending on demographic? many wild animals will exhibit ferocity when similar tactics are imposed.
- can you kettle a peaceful --yet fully armed-- protest? what are the benefits? risks?
- what is the economic impact to the city? minneapolis and other US locales have had to pay millions to settle unlawful detainment lawsuits during such events. is there a "break-even" point where kettles will be avoided for fear of inciting overwhelming expenditures? does the class/race makeup matter?
In the last 20 years who were the most eager to open fire in any situation?
If you wish people to accept or even join your movement, violence seems to be counter-productive:
> For more than a century, from 1900 to 2006, campaigns of nonviolent resistance were more than twice as effective as their violent counterparts in achieving their stated goals. By attracting impressive support from citizens, whose activism takes the form of protests, boycotts, civil disobedience, and other forms of nonviolent noncooperation, these efforts help separate regimes from their main sources of power and produce remarkable results, even in Iran, Burma, the Philippines, and the Palestinian Territories.
* https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10056014-why-civil-resis...
I'm guessing history has some anti-phalanx tactics that may be useful. My naive assumption is that well-organized protestors could choose one spot to focus on and try to break through using sheer numbers and momentum with some uh, ablation at the edges and tip of the spear. This comes with a very high risk of trampling. Veteran Black Bloc practitioners will likely have less naive countermeasures
The Hong Kong protesters are the ones who developed the best tactics.
I have never heard of a 2nd Amendment protest (where most protesters show up armed) being kettled.
Make of that what you will.
The trick is to find the line where you cause people enough disruption to think about why you're without causing so much that they just immediately side against you, and it seems like most protests completely miss the mark.
What were all those "whites only" lunch counter sit-ins MLK did then? They sound like a textbook definition of "provoking the very people you are trying to convince", and yet.
While at a high enough level of disruption, the acts of protesters might harm public support of the cause, I think that level is probably pretty high and supporters will largely understand if they are temporarily inconvenienced, while some people who already oppose the protestor's cause will tend to use any inconvenience as a more socially acceptable excuse to justify their opposition instead of more honest reasons like plain old bigotry.
Pissing people off (too much) seems to be counter-productive and can prevent people with sympathizing/empathizing/joining you:
> For more than a century, from 1900 to 2006, campaigns of nonviolent resistance were more than twice as effective as their violent counterparts in achieving their stated goals. By attracting impressive support from citizens, whose activism takes the form of protests, boycotts, civil disobedience, and other forms of nonviolent noncooperation, these efforts help separate regimes from their main sources of power and produce remarkable results, even in Iran, Burma, the Philippines, and the Palestinian Territories.
* https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10056014-why-civil-resis...
Laws buttress/codify the current social order, and forbid shaking it up, in particular through disruptive protest. If the social order is racist, then these laws will be used to preserve racism. They're inherently repressive, not inherently racist.
If you're the government - you don't want to abandon them. If you're a social movement - you're against their existence (if you're more principled), or against their enforcement in your case (if you're more opportunistic).
That's a very convenient "if". I just declare social order is racist, so the laws no longer apply to me and any lawless action I take instead of being a crime becomes struggle against racism. Nice deal. Except the society that allows such deals can not survive. Of course, if you want to destroy the society - either because you genuinely think it's "racist" or because you just don't care - then you don't have a valid base for complaint when the society tries to defend itself and arrests you. You are literally destroying it, what else should it do?