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Comment by ZanyProgrammer | Hacker News Reader

OTOH you shouldn’t necessarily trust what corporations say about this. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/business/walgreens-shopliftin...

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OTOOH, I have worked in SF for 24 years. Back then I don't think I ever saw anyone shoplift. I'm sure it happened, but I never personally witnessed it. In the last year or so, I have personally witnessed people shoplifting in various SF retail establishments probably more than 30 times. On only two occasions have I seen anyone attempt do anything to try to stop the perpetrator. In my opinion, I think the CNN article is incorrect in its assertions. Based on my personal experiences, I would say it's happening a lot and with increasing regularity. I think the people who do it should be punished.

There’s second order effects as well. When the law abiding witnesses theft, particularly repeated theft, they associate the location with a lack of law and order. If they’re going to steal, what other laws are they willing to break? Do I feel physically safe here?

This has a cascading effect where the law abiding will consciously avoid the locations where these thefts happen, causing even more of them relative to the legitimate customers entering the store. It’s a vicious cycle.

> I think the people who do it should be punished.

It’s really that simple.

Agree. Plus companies have an interest in downplaying the theft rates when it suits them (to encourage shoppers without fear of being surrounded by thieves etc), and other times it’s in their interest to play it up (esp when security costs are too high).

Walgreens made $32 billion in profit last year and they announced all of these store closings about 4 years ago. They're looking to change business models, but it's easier to blame store closures on shoplifting to save face for leaving communities. They have acknowledged this in city council hearings.

That article is playing a bunch of statistical games, like comparing 2022 to 2023 instead of to prior to the mass mob looting incidents, using national data to hide effects of primarily regional issues, citing figures with obvious reporting bias by only counting incidents reported to the police that could do nothing without caring about their severity as a way to cast doubt on the idea that they actually needed to close the stores in the problem areas.

And even then it was forced to admit that shoplifting is up even if one retailer's shrinkage numbers (which includes a lot more than just shoplifting) went down. Never mind their other interventions, like closing stores in problem areas or spending more on security.

You're right to believe your lying eyes here. There were a lot of statistical errors in the article and they all went in the same direction, working to downplay the kind of problems you witnessed first hand.

Umm, I'm sorry sweaty, but since I didn't read this on CNN or the Huffington Post, your lying eyes are guilty of spreading dangerous far-right misinformation.

Please don't do this here.

That's an odd way to frame it when you're citing corporate reports and an executive's statements as evidence that the many videos of groups of people ransacking stores in broad daylight are overblown.

They play with stats a lot, comparing 2022 to 2023, instead of to prior to the problem, using national figures to hide a regional problem, ignoring interventions, etc.

I mean there is a point that a lot of crime is done by a few people, such as the 327 people in New York who were responsible for about 1/3rd of the shoplifting arrests. But I don't think the usual answer to this is going to be "it's okay to do crime, actually."

Maybe the answer should be to incapacitate those 327 people so they don't keep hurting people continually, since it sure looks doubtful that reform is even possible.

I thought the wording of the headline ("to say...") was a nod to the others having walked back similar claims.

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