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Comment by MinMax50_50 | Hacker News Reader

You know your country's broken when you have to design things around thieves instead of customers. Hopefully the US doesn't get this far, but it does seem we're on the road to it.

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"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I guess you don’t know what’s been going on for years in San Francisco:

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/12/people-in-california-are-l...

That picture is not of/from San Francisco.

How can you tell?

Because I clicked on the link and watched the embedded video?

I've never once seen anyone do that in the Bay Area. Given that the "source" is a well known tabloid (Inside Edition) I'll go so far as to say the whole thing was probably staged.

You seem confused. Perhaps you meant to reply to a different comment? The article linked in the parent comment is about San Fransisco, not the Bay Area.

I was also specifically asking about the picture, not a video. Are you assuming that the picture is a still from the video? If not, I don't see how this is relevant.

http://lmgtfy2.com/?q=san+francisco+unlocked+cars

Before shooting your mouth off you should really look at what's being talked about. Read the article, watch the video that's attached to the article. When you have something coherent to add, reply below.

Avoid acerbic, ad-hominem attacks and try to stay on topic. We would all benefit from a regular review of the site guidelines. Have a good day! :)

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.

Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If you want a more substantive reply then don't wave about shallow dismissals e.g. "you seemed confused" when you've not actually bothered to do the one thing that would put my replies in context (and would've answered your questions in the first place). Waving the guidelines about is not a substitute for taking the 30 seconds to inform yourself.

I'm not confused and I'm not questioning that you've read the article, I'm stating that you've not. In any case, no matter how much you're trying to avoid being informed, that picture was not taken in San Francisco. Full stop.

The video says it’s in Oakland California

It’s an article about the Bay Area, of which San Francisco is a notable part. Some would even say the biggest and most influential part. San Francisco police and citizens are quoted in it, discussing that phenomenon. Is it your assertion that this isn’t an issue there?

My assertion is that you've linked to a tabloid (Inside Edition) article. Tabloids tend to misrepresent things and blow them out of proportion. That's why they're tabloids and not legitimate journalistic sources.

In this case I'd say your source is likely doing both. In a lifetime in the Bay Area (and a stints in Oakland and San Francisco specifically) I've never once seen people preemptively leave their trunks/tailgates open to avoid vehicular damage. If anyone's actually doing that, it's not very common.

SFPD as well has demonstrated a willingness to bend the truth in order to craft their desired narrative.

  Is it your assertion that this isn’t an issue there?

The other part of your comments that stinks to high heaven is just how focused you are on the Bay Area (nee San Francisco). Property crime is increasing nationwide for many of the same reasons that property crime is increasing in San Francisco and the Bay Area. But you had to say San Francisco when referring to not-San Francisco as if it's a dog whistle or something.

I had an old shitty car in San Francisco that I left unlocked to avoid breakins, people slept in it/went to the bathroom in it. This was over 20 years ago.

South Africa is a dirt-poor nation that's suffered decades of colonialism and apartheid.

What's our excuse for our rampant homelessness? At least the thieves there have homes to steal solar panels for... (though, last time I was there, shantytowns were still common too).

And speaking of brokenness and theft... my god, look at the West Coast cities during/after COVID. It's heartbreaking, especially while our "country" keeps getting richer on paper. Extreme inequality was terrible for South Africa. It'll be terrible for us too =/

You should ask South Africans of any race if they preferred the "colonialism and apartheid" or what they have now.

Can you explain, please?

>South Africa is a dirt-poor nation that's suffered decades of colonialism and apartheid

At what point does that stop being an excuse?

Early 90s it had a peaceful handover of power, democratic elections, a functioning govt. Look at how eastern Europe has developed in the same period.

> At what point does that stop being an excuse?

Ah, the old imperialist "Look, I gave you your wallet back (after taking what I wanted from it); what's the problem? By the way, I need cheap labor and you look like you need a job." schtick.

Is the US still blaming Britain for its ills? Is Britain still blaming the french and Italians (Romans) for its ills?

Yes fine I took your wallet. But that was 30 years ago. Will your great grand children still be blaming my grand children for the stolen wallet?

Do I still get to hate the land owning elite over what they did to my forbears? Do I still get to hate the Germans because of the world wars?

Empirically the answer is yes. The more wrongs that have been inflicted upon you, the greater your moral standing. So long as you remember and publicize those wrongs. Because if you don't, others will make it seem like you are the sole villain of history, and they innocent victims.

That is what happens to those who forget history - others will remember a self-serving version of that history, full of tactical omissions, for them.

There's a difference between remembering, and moving on.

It's got nothing to do with "moral standing" it just perpetuates a victim mentality. People and countries need to move on.

That doesn't mean you need to forget. You need to remember, learn the lessons etc.

None of my examples have been forgotten, all have been moved on from.

When there is actually a true reconciliation for what happened in its past. This would require - as with Haiti, as with Venezuela, as with the poorer regions of China that have been essentially annexed by Beijing - certain international entities to get over their hurt feelings at losing a gem in their crowns of exploitation, and to end their marriage to toxic self-interest, which prevent SA from taking proactive steps to expand their pie, as it were. It would also require people within the country building a profound sense of national and communal trust (not rebuilding, because no such thing has existed before). One of the most famous para-athletes in history shot his wife to death through a bathroom door, out a fear that connects directly to the internalized lies of Apartheid and colonialism.

Define "true reconciliation".

Who are these "international entities"?

>It would also require people within the country building a profound sense of national and communal trust

Good point. But it hasn't happened this far, no one seems to be suggesting it.

Do you think south Africa would be better off it it broke up into its constituent tribal areas?

>out a fear that connects directly to the internalized lies of Apartheid and colonialism

That's a very big stretch

Your default to interrogation on an assumption that my statements are suspect is noted. I will not be indulging you.

>That's a very big stretch

It is not.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35006865

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2014/5/13/oscar-pistorius...

And yet you don't clarify.

"True reconciliation" could mean anything.

And your "international entities" just sounds tin foil hat flat earther

I shouldn't have to clarify. The nature of SA's history of exploitation - at the hands of numerous countries, companies, organizations, and influential individuals - should make the nature of "true reconciliation" obvious. It's on you to be well-versed enough in the subject to follow.

Inconspicuous design is universal, and not a symptom of “broken countries.” Compare intentionally beaten up looking bicycles, extraordinary wealthy (especially “old” wealth) people wearing inconspicuous clothes, etc.

Uh...I have never met someone who intentionally had a beaten-up-looking bike nor who dressed down to avoid being robbed. That sounds horrible.

There are multiple adjacent threads describing this exact phenomenon. It’s also worth taking a look at a photos of the wealthiest men in the US sometime.

Rich people don't dress down to avoid being robbed. It's been covered to death. It's a flex.

Is it?

Surely it's because some people want to display their wealth and other don't.

To me wealth is money in the bank, not sitting on the driveway. Who's flexing more or the neighbour with a BMW lease?

Are you sure? Maybe the point is that they blended in to be unnoticeable.

I know some rich people to be clear, and most dress modestly, but it's because they don't want to show off or they don't want to look tacky or because they still work manual labor jobs and those outfits are impractical. None have even mentioned a fear of being robbed.

Fair enough.

No? Those are both pretty common. You've never met anyone who drives a crappy car or leaves a little bit of trash on the dash to to avoid it being broken into?

If you've never even met someone who does any of these things I think you're living a pretty charmed existence removed from a lot of the realities of the world. I sometimes wonder what proportion of the HN audience is lacking these same basic experiences. Some of the comments I see on here make me wonder...

If that's common in your area, it says more about the area than him.

> If you've never even met someone who does any of these things I think you're living a pretty charmed existence removed from a lot of the realities of the world.

Or maybe live in a country that has low crime.

The Dutch ride crappy bikes because they get stolen.

The Netherlands isn't exactly a crime hotspot.

In Paris I know a lot of people who use old bikes because anything shiny or pricy gets stolen. For the same reason, e-scooters and e-bikes are very often stored indoors even during the day.

The issue is not only in solar panels in South Africa or cars in San Francisco.

Heh, in Paris, went to Ste-Chapelle, which is connected to the supreme courthouse. Happened to be during the terrorist bomber trial.

Maaaaaassive security. CRS everywhere, out of town Gendarmes there, airport style security to get into the church, police questioning every non-white person on the street.

And there it was, inside the courthouse compound, some low-end 80s Peugeot bicycle double locked to an interior fence.

I know a guy who bought an expensive bicycle and then gave it a hideous rattle-can paintjob. He did not care about resale value or looking cool, he just loved riding the bike and was tired of his bikes getting stolen while running errands around town.

> he just loved riding the bike and was tired of his bikes getting stolen while running errands around town.

...and that sounds horrible.

i have absolutely owned bikes, cars, etc. that were intentionally crappy to avoid attracting attention in the city. this is incredibly common

It is common/universal and also a symptom of something that is broken. (high crime, lack of enforcement)

Others have pointed out that even low crime societies (such as the Netherlands) regularly engage in this kind of small-scale deterrent behavior.

(I have never met a cop who was even remotely interested in helping me recover a stolen bicycle.)

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