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Comment by jmacd | Hacker News Reader

I had a Hybrid Audi Q5 and one day it just stopped working.

The dealership quoted me $25,000 for a new battery, plus labour, plus they said I had to manage the recycling of the old battery. They estimated that at $6,000. My head was spinning.

Eventually through a few Facebook groups I was able to find a battery technician. He happily opened up the battery, checked the cells, found the failed cells, repaired them and then had to do some work on the vehicle diagnostics to get it to forget there was ever a problem.

Voila, it was working just fine. Took him 90 minutes.

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Chris Fix has a video showing how to replace all the cells on a Prius battery. It's not the hardest DIY thing I have seen by a large margin. I recall seeing a single cell replacement video a while back as well, but don't remember where.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHaYXBFnJo

We need more right to repair and requirement to make things repairable regulations. The balance is in the wrong spot right now.

Chris Fix's videos are a wonderful. High signal to noise with a very pleasant presentation.

They are mostly car repair, maintenance, and modification. No real theme, just whatever he happens to be doing and find interesting.

My 11 year old has watched his oil change video at least a hundred times. We opened the hood on my truck and he was able to find various parts that Chris had mentioned in his videos. My older two (driving age) have no clue.

Right to repair is already possible on Prii's. The question is, is it possible on Teslas.

It is possible on Teslas (despite their best efforts). Check out some of the older Rich Rebuilds videos on YouTube.

Isn't it much more dangerous to work on these batteries?

400V or 800V at those amperages can easily be fatal even through a pair of rubber gloves.

If you follow the appropriate procedures it is no more dangerous than working on an ICE car. There are safety fuses you pull to disarm the system.

About the same level of danger as working on your own brakes.

Agreed - unfortunately so much is going into proprietary systems and DRMing control units (and even spare parts), which really needs to change.

There is some progress being made, like https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64206913 - but absolutely, legislating RtR is the way to go.

Imagine a post-apocalyptic world with fully functional technology that surviving humans are hopelessly locked out from using. The Master-Blaster rulers will be the ones who are, or who control, the hackers.

Internal combustion engines are complex but, to fix them, we have a century of knowledge and a mature ecosystem: parts distributors, aftermarket, shops, amateur mechanics, books, courses, you name it.

I'm very hesitant to buy a hybrid that's so complex only highly specialized mechanics can repair them (specially certified mechanics at the dealership) and the repair ecosystem is 1% the size.

If it wasn't unsafe I'd prefer a Willys jeep that I can fix myself with chewing gum.

Car shops have nearly as much existing knowledge repairing electronics. Most of what they need isn't "highly specialized" so much as "differently specialized".

The biggest problem right now is that the training/retraining costs on those different specializations aren't current always economically worth it because overall EVs have fewer parts and need fewer maintenance cycles. That's likely going to be economic factors that will keep the repair ecosystem smaller in the long term, too. Not because the knowledge is "tougher" and "more certified" (existing work had certifications, too, just different ones), but because it is overall going to involve fewer supply chain "partners" and fewer, less frequent customers.

Your comment is valid for EVs but I’m commenting specifically on hybrids. The complexity I’m worried about comes from having both systems in the car.

Fair enough. I think this is why hybrids are an evolutionary dead end in cars. GM said the era of the hybrid was already over when they discontinued the Volt in 2019, and I agree with that sentiment. They were a transition technology for a transition that is mostly already past and 2019 is a good enough death date for it to me. (I still drive a 2012 Volt myself, so I lived the transition. I would not recommend to anyone buying in 2023 a hybrid, and I expect my Volt may move on to a second owner for some time, but I would recommend an EV first to anyone that isn't the potential buyer for my car when it is time to sell.)

The main issue is that car mechanics can only repair mechanical parts. Everything electric is above them.

Sounds like there's good scratch to be made as a battery technician; one could set up a shop and offer services to all the local garages too, which will be facing this problem.

Of course, they'd rather take the 25K, or take in the car for scrap / resale themselves.

Check your state law on battery recycling. In some (most?) states, places that sell batteries have to also accept batteries (the law might say something about the cost).

Clearly there is a need for better battery DRM if unauthorized repair technicians are able to work on these components!

> Voila, it was working just fine. Took him 90 minutes

Either the dealership is (1) incompetent, (2) this is a profit model (they quickly refusbish the old battery and resell it), or (3) it is a liability issue.

How much was the fix?

A couple hundred $

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