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Comment by jaybhum | Hacker News Reader

Here is our privacy page: https://bubblic.co/privacy/

We do not use it to train any models or share the data with ANYONE.

I currently work from home with my wife, we are not incorporated yet. I live in Mountain View, CA right now. Do you suggest that I put my home address there?

We are GDPR compliant. We do not sell or share users' data and we let them know what kind of data we collect for what purposes. Plus, users can delete their data COMPLETELY from our system with a single button within the app. No emailing or calling a number shenanigans.

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The only ethical 'business model' I could see here is a donation-based non-for-profit that keeps the lights on. It might be worthwhile partnering with a non-for-profit that's already in the mental health space. They can funnel grant money into this, and probably have enough advertising budget and brand to get much broader reach. Otherwise it's fine to keep it small as your passion project and not exploit your users for growth.

That is an interesting point. I feel like there will be people telling me that I am exploiting people's loneliness if I ever make a penny from this. I do not plan to put the current experience behind a paywall ever. This platform should be available to everyone as they need it. But I was thinking of providing cute premium features like stickers to enrich their experience. Would you say those are a no-go as well?

> I feel like there will be people telling me that I am exploiting people's loneliness if I ever make a penny from this.

That would be a silly objection, like claiming restaurants are exploiting people's hunger by selling food for money.

That being said, the moment such a platform makes a single iota of data about their users (even seemingly mundane information such as how many users there are, their geographic distribution, how many messages the average user writes etc.) available to anyone for any purpose – including research and non-profit purposes – I would consider the whole enterprise to have turned unethical. It doesn't matter whether the field of psychology could benefit from it, or what the "greater good" might be. It has to be crystal clear and non-negotiable that the only use for those messages is going to be letting other regular users listen to them.

You should also think about what you will do in case law enforcement demands access to user data. The less information you store, the better. Consider automatically deleting messages after a period of time, or similar proactive measures. And of course, maintain a strict process for disposing of backups, else the "delete my data" function is effectively worthless.

> That would be a silly objection, like claiming restaurants are exploiting people's hunger by selling food for money.

A bit of a broken analogy, but if I were to indulge, it’s similar to denying rice to starving people who’ve lost all worldly possessions in a war-ravaged country because they couldn’t pay up.

There are wellness apps that give a no-questions-asked zero subscription to anyone who says they can't afford the cost. This is potentially one way out. But a freemium model, where paying people get better features of some consequence, is a little demoralizing, and you probably don't want to demoralize people with mental health issues, IMHO

I appreciate your thoughtful input! I agree, if we EVER make an iota of data about the users, that should be included in the terms and conditions of the app. The way we put the app out there to the users right now is with the understanding that we will not make any data, so we will uphold that.

Regarding law enforcement: I think that could be a good idea. Have the data permanently deleted after a period of time and/or ensure backups are deleted completely. Thank you for your feedback!

It would undermine your stated mission imo

> Here is our privacy page: https://bubblic.co/privacy/

Ok. I wasn't able to find it myself because AFAICT, it isn't linked from your homepage. To quote https://gdpr.eu/privacy-notice/ (emphasis added):

"Every organization that maintains a website should publish their privacy notice there, under the title “Privacy Policy,” and it should be accessible via a direct link from every webpage."

> Do you suggest that I put my home address there?

I suggest that you speak to a legal professional to answer that question. You are collecting some very sensitive, highly intimate data from users. I'm not sure whether such an enterprise lends itself to a "run from home" setup. You should definitely get advice from a competent professional as to what regulations apply, and which information you are required to provide.

But you haven't answered my first and most important question: How are you planning to monetize this? As you are no doubt aware, businesses that start out with good (or vague) intentions have a tendency to turn to the dark side once their userbase is big enough to be of interest to data miners. In order to prevent this, you need a steady revenue stream that covers your costs so you can avoid selling your soul to VCs and tracking companies. Where will that revenue stream come from?

I have updated the website now to include that link. Thank you.

As far as monetization goes, we plan to add premium features like stickers, and voice changers. There will be people who do not want to talk with their voice precisely for the reason you mentioned: one can consider it to be a sensitive data. Why do we want to offer voice-alteration as a paid feature? Because, if it is free for all, we fear that there will be people abusing the feature that jeopardizes the authenticity of the platform.

We do NOT plan to sell or share users' data with a third party, or use users' data to train an internal AI model because I think that fundamentally betrays the goodwill that users bring to our platform.

IMO, voice alteration in general would undermine the concept, which is to hear genuine human voices. That seems like the opposite of what you want.

Have you considered limiting the number of voice messages non-paying users can post? As in, free users can post up to 5 messages per month, while paying users can post an unlimited number. Everybody can listen to as many messages as they want. The desire to "get your voice out" can be a powerful incentive to subscribe.

I am not sure if going with limited messages is the right idea. I do want to make this platform available to people to form meaningful connections regardless of their wallet.

I think having voice alteration as a premium feature so that it is not abuse-able but accessible to people who are willing to pay for it for the extra layer of privacy, could be a net boon for the network. Still food for thought :)

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