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Comment by NoZebra120vClip | Hacker News Reader

Conversely, have we considered that motherhood is a joy and a privilege for women, that it is the most sublime fulfillment of their biological design and destiny, to bear and feed their young, to bond with them, to hold and touch them, to care for them, no matter what?

Have we considered, that despite the "pangs of childbirth" that are a very real part of the experience, that conception, pregnancy, and childbirth are natural processes, not diseases or disorders to be eliminated, and that mankind has been well-equipped to accompany women and support them every step of the way, no matter what obstacles they face, that they retain their dignity and continue to fulfill their vocation of motherhood?

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I think describing motherhood as "the most sublime fulfilment of their biological design and destiny" is the sort of language many women I know to be extremely toxic to them. Especially women I know who are infertile, struggled to have children, or have lost children to miscarriage. Please reconsider this. Women are much more than their fertility on every level-- biologically and otherwise!

Additionally, I never called motherhood a disease or disorder to be eliminated. I only said I hoped the pressure on women to be mothers would lessen! You seem to be projecting here.

If women went around telling everyone what we thought about testicles, we’d get laughed right out of the public square. And yet men don’t hesitate to give their opinions about the process of childbirth, about which they know nothing firsthand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

Nowhere in those Wikipedia articles (or in anything else I’ve read on logical fallacies) is there any support for the idea that secondhand information is more valuable than firsthand information. I’m honestly curious why you think your opinions on childbirth are so valuable that they’re worth posting on Hacker News. Are you a researcher? An obstetrician? Because what it looks like to me is a JavaScript programmer who’s never written Rust giving their opinions on the borrow checker. I don’t deny them the right to have opinions on the borrow checker. I do question whether those opinions add anything to the conversation on this site.

This comment is misogynistic. Obviously a lot of women enjoy being mothers, but to say that it's a universal biological destiny is simply wrong. Women can participate in society and find fulfillment in many ways, regardless of whether or not they have kids.

meh, seems unlikely, but i guess in some rare cases that may be possible.

Please reconsider this notion that it's rare for women to have fulfillment in life without children. It's really hurtful to women who have trouble conceiving or have had miscarriages (miscarriages are shockingly common) to have the added societal pressure.

I hope you never express this attitude within earshot of a woman who is experiencing reproductive pain in her life.

Absolutely not. What right do you have to tell women what motherhood means to them? Mind your own business.

Have you considered talking to an actual woman about this? Let me know when you find one who would describe childbirth as “sublime”.

I've met plenty. They didn't use the word "sublime" but definitely shared the sentiment expressed in the grandparent post. I'm currently dating one who told me to my face that having my children is her dream.

Okay, done. Would you like a list? What's your email's attachment size limit?

While I’m usually all for technological advances, if a woman wanted to pursue this route, that would be a dealbreaker for me. This feels like some awful dystopian nightmare tech.

This technology feels rife for abuse in building armies or company-grown and owned “employees” that function as property of the corp. Artificial wombs may be cool for people who are otherwise infertile, but to see people so quick to replace natural childbirth with this to “relieve women of the pressure of motherhood.”

This feels like something that people who want a larger labor market would love. The population grows, and they never even have to have the women stop working! We’ve gone too far in the direction of fetishizing work in the USA. We shouldn’t be fighting for women’s work to be equal work with men, we should be fighting for the restoration of the family unit via increased wages that can support a family with only 1 salary. Propaganda has made us instead try to have both parents work full time jobs and raise the kids via daycare and TikTok, because that’s what makes a woman strong and independent. It’s sad to see people fight against their interests.

Many people DIED giving birth, dude. Many of them STILL die. Maternal mortality rates, for most of history, matched or exceeded the rates at which soldiers died in wars! This take is breathtakingly misogynist and also inaccurate as hell.

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