Hacker News Reader

Comment by abtinf | Hacker News Reader

The single biggest deficiency of Kagi is Apple’s exclusive control over the list of selectable default search providers in iOS Safari.

It is infuriating and is the one thing that has caused me to seriously try other browsers on mobile. The problem is, they are all terrible in some small paper cutting ways (including Orion, though that has been rapidly improving).

View on HN

> The single biggest deficiency of Kagi is Apple’s exclusive control over the list of selectable default search providers in iOS Safari.

Seems like a deficiency of Apple products to me. I know it's beating a dead horse, but this is what happens when people willingly buy into a closed system they have no control over.

Yup. My guess is all the search providers in the list are paying Apple to be there. Kagi will never make the list.

I have the same hunch. Google pays Apple $20B annually to be the default search engine. Thankfully those of us in the EU will soon be able to choose any search engines we like once the DMA comes into effect.

I use the app xSearch, which lets you use custom search engines with Safari. Once you turn on override mode inside of xSearch, it works perfect. I agree that it’s unfortunate, but for the time being anyone who’s going out of their way to pay for Kagi is someone who will go out of their way to install an app like xSearch. Hopefully we see some improvements from Apple with this

Funny thing is, people are buying Apple products because the alternative is Google, and why are you paying for Kagi, because you trust Google?

For what it's worth, I only buy Android phones that have unlockable bootloaders and I can root so that ultimately I have control over my own device.

But yes, I agree on how letting Apple and Google assert a level of control unparalleled in the history of computing has been a massive step backwards for our industry and consumers in general.

I don't trust Google, but it's practical. There are tons of ways you can control/limit privacy issues, like a combination of opting out of personalized ads, AdGuard, DNS level filtering, and not using any Google services other than necessary for Android. Many of these require little effort but go very far -- farther than the default experience from a new iPhone. In fact many of these things are unrelated to Android. With these in place I don't see using Android a problem by itself. (On the other hand, if you use an iPhone but have no adblocking or don't block tracking domains, and use Google services all the time, I don't see how it is better)

I realize this is probably not the solution you want, but there is an official iOS Safari extension that will intercept all address bar searches and route them to Kagi. I don’t remember how much it costs, and it doesn’t seem to work super well with private browsing, but it’s better than nothing and works well for what it is. Ymmv

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/kagi-search-for-safari/id16077...

It actually works very well with private browsing. You just need to have the extension enabled for private browsing (in iOS 17 that's a separate switch) and tap on "get your session link" once in the extension menu in Safari. That way it knows about your subscription, even in private tabs.

Yup, I just never took the time to set it up properly.

I should give it another try. I believe the last time I tried it, I was frustrated because of the private browsing login issue. Maybe one day (probably not) Apple will allow setting a simple URL for custom search engines.

Orion needs a lot of polish, but I am hopeful they will get there.

I took a closer look and the iOS extension supports entering a “session link” which allows the Kagi redirect to work in private windows. Entering it is a bit cumbersome—you have to first open a private window and then any random page so you can see the extension button in the address bar, at which point you can tap it and then the Kagi icon to get to the session link field—but it appears to stick after that and the redirect works as expected (although you do get a brief flash of Google or whatever — they suggest changing it to DDG which looks a bit smoother).

Agree that it feels hacky, but sometimes you just have to take what you can get.

You can generate a Kagi login link with a token and save that to your favourites. Then, click that link in the new private tab window before searching.

The Kagi Search app/extension linked above can persist your session link in its settings and thus works in private mode or after clearing all cookies.

Would you be kind to document the top 3 pet peeves you have with Orion iOS on OrionFeedback [1]. We are keen to improve.

[1] https://orionfeedback.org

I use XSearch to replace the default Safari search engine, it also supports bangs.

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/xsearch-for-safari/id157990206...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com