Comment by al_james | Hacker News Reader

Comment by al_james | Hacker News Reader

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Caim (www.caim.org) | Python Engineer, Front End Engineer, and Engineering Lead | 100% Remote | Volunteer/Unpaid | Part-time

We’re a 501c3 charity whose mission is to help the US become a no-kill nation. Our platform empowers animal rescues to connect with each other, fosters and other rescue advocates in order to move animals from overcrowded, high kill areas to places they're more likely to be adopted. Our organization launched in 2022 and we’re looking for engineers to join the team so we can continue building out our web app. Caim is 100% volunteer run at this time.

We are looking for people who can help out 5+ hours per week.

Python Engineer – must have knowledge of python and any popular web framework (preference for Django) – https://www.caim.org/volunteer/full-stack-engineer

Engineering Lead - must have knowledge of python and any popular web framework (preferably Django) + experience helping more junior engineers get started – https://www.caim.org/volunteer/engineering-lead

Front End Engineer - must have experience with raw CSS, Bootstrap, jQuery, Django and CSS/DOM - https://www.caim.org/volunteer/front-end-engineer

Please apply to volunteer through the links above.

Is there a reason why your code isn't open source? I like your mission, but it's very unclear to me why your codebase isn't open and I'd 100% be much more likely to try to help out if it were.

If I had to guess: there's likely nothing that special about their Django site for connecting animals to foster parents, and the extra time and potential security risks of of making it open source compared to the benefit it'd provide the open source community doesn't make sense.

Volunteer-run tech and IT for non-profits aren't exactly well known for the highest of standards of engineering. The likelihood of someone accidentally leaking AWS creds or other PII seems reasonably possible without well established engineering practices.

Alternatively, it may involve proprietary code for a software vendor they work with that they don't have the rights to redistribute.

That would just be security through obscurity.

I'd be really interested in contributing but I'd hate to be contributing and then find out that this non-profit is actually some rich persons tax avoidance scheme or can be pivoted in a way to make money for someone.

Having the source code licensed as GPL or something would make this a smaller concern for me.

> security through obscurity

Security is security, how you get there is entirely up to your organization. Also I'm not sure how having code access to their site proves that it isn't some rich person's tax avoidance scheme. In a way, all charities allow rich people to avoid paying taxes to some degree.

why is “somebody wants to make money” a bad thing?

It's a bad thing when the job is advertised: "Volunteer/Unpaid".

The poster I replied to indicated that the “making money” part could come later.

It is easy enough to have a volunteering agreement that catches this with clauses. Open sourcing the code won’t help with that scenario anyway.

But if it were open source, volunteers could fork and self-host the application and create their own competing non-profit/organization.

It’s a content-driven website with user submissions. They don’t even claim copyright or ownership on the content, which is the actual thing that makes up the unique value.

Open source what, exactly? You point makes literally zero sense

Would you be willing to volunteer your time to open source their codebase rather than waiting for someone to volunteer their time to open source their codebase so you would be more likely to help out?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but there could be a fit for a person acting in good faith to help them accomplish this. I think open sourcing one's code is seen as easy by some, but it's actually a skill (I tend to get overwhelmed by the idea of open sourcing my projects and never end up doing it FWIW) and people experienced in doing so have something to offer.

This sounds so nice, I dropped an application off. How can I find more volunteer CS opportunities like this?

Idealist.org has been a job board for non profits for decades, and you can find volunteer positions there at times.

Once upon a time I even worked at idealist itself when they had grander dreams

Would definitely love to see this as an open source project that could receive contributions from the public too. Many people find these initiatives and love to participate with reviews, discussions, and code contributions. Hopefully this is being considered

There are two kinds of shelters: open-admission, and no-kill. There is no third kind. We will never be a no-kill nation without addressing the root causes: lack of availability of subsidized spay/neuter programs, and the profitability of animal breeding.

I think it's great to try to connect people with animals they want to take care of. It's not going to make overcrowded shelters any less crowded. There is certainly some unused shelter capacity that your organization can fill up, that is true. However, that capacity is not infinite, and once you have reached it you'll have all the same problems.

There is only one solution: subsidized spay/neuter programs and a crackdown on any animal-breeding operation. Otherwise, you're just giving a blood transfusion to a patient with a gushing wound.

> a crackdown on any animal-breeding operation

As someone with zero interest whatsoever in animal breeding, this kind of restriction seems way too draconian and incompatible with a free society. I'd rather have there be too many stray animals forever than for that to be implemented.

Stray animals, cats in particular, are contributing to the rapid decline of our bird population. Freedom to breed animals in an irretrievably broken ecosystem is a dubious proposition.

(I’m not advocating for a ban but there aren’t any good options here. )

Isn't the real problem not breeding animals, but rather releasing them into the environment? Why not crack down on the latter instead?

I don’t know how you can accomplish either, but breeding is much easier to detect than releasing into the wild. Basically if someone is selling animals, they’d need a license…which now that I write it, doesn’t seem all that impractical.

Most people agree with you, which is exactly why there is no chance that an organization like this can have a real impact.

How can a breeder, who is incentivized to create a stream of puppies to sell, be compatible with a society that is trying to reduce euthanasia for animals? Breeders already have to deal with puppies and kitties "aging out" of profitability, an organization like this just subsidizes their cost of dumping unwanted stock.

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