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Comment by wantoncl | Hacker News Reader

NYC bike messengers. And rollerbladers. Not sure how it is now, but in the late 90's they were exactly as the other poster described. Fail to yield, swerving in front of buses and flipping off the drivers if they honked. Utter contempt for everyone else. I was in far more danger of getting injured by them than any vehicle, and this was Manhattan traffic.

Plenty of stories of grandmas getting knocked down by rollers and bikers in Central Park back then too.

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> flipping off the drivers if they honked

Honking within urban areas is forbidden unless used to prevent immediate danger (well, in France anyway).

Honking for "educational purpose", ie to yell at someone, is a major nuisance. Every honk annoys dozens of people around the driver, wakes up babies and so on.

Friends, don't let friends honk inconsiderately.

It's cultural. In India and other places in Asia, honking is just to say "hey, I'm here, did you see me?" and prevent an accident, but it happens so frequently that sitting in traffic is a cacaphony of honking at all times. In (my part of) the US, honking is to express displeasure at whatever it is the other driver did, and is infrequent. In other places, they might as well not install a horn, because it never gets used.

It's used much the same in NYC and some other than areas. A quick tap to say "hey I'm here and I'm doing something" like changing lanes or pulling out of traffic

Aside: I really wish cars had two different horns. A nice little boop horn, to say "hey I'm here" or "lights green buddy" and then the big honking thing that says "you nearly hit me by rolling through that stop sign, pay better attention"

They're 12V contained electronics with a wire, e.g. adding a boat horn to your car is an hour install at most.

I've done it. I've got a little loud speaker that plays a soft awooga sound when I press a button, but it would be nice to have a factory option, or even a standard

> I really wish cars had two different horn

I really wish cars didn't have horns. Or that horns would be louder inside than outside for drivers to "feel" it accordingly.

99% of the honks I hear are useless to prevent any incoming danger (too late, honking to say "hi", honking to express displeasure...)

I've used the horn once in the last 10 years, and I shouldn't have.

If you want to expand your mind, travel to south east Asia or India for a bit and see a different way of how billions of people live and drive every day.

Yep. I cannot speak for India but I lived in China for a few years. Honking is useless there as well.

It is used a lot, but without actual benefit IMHO.

Edit: perhaps less useless since drivers tend not to look before changing lane. That's another issue.

This is not true in the US, at least in Washington state for example. Honking = speech

https://law.justia.com/cases/washington/supreme-court/2011/8...

> The woman at the center of that case, Helen D. Immelt, had been raising chickens in Snohomish County, Wash., apparently in violation of her local homeowners association covenants. A neighbor complained, and Ms. Immelt, according to court documents, drove over at 6 a.m. and applied some free-speech payback.

The Pacific Northwest has always had a libertarian streak, I doubt this would be ruled permissible in other states.

Are late night home parties with loud music also considered free speech or is it an illegal nuisance?

> I was in far more danger of getting injured by them than any vehicle, and this was Manhattan traffic.

Sorry but the stats just don't bear this out.

I've lived in dense cities my entire life. Stories, anecdotes, etc. do not reflect the reality of what is more likely to cause you harm.

The stats dont record whose at fault in NYC, nor do they record when car drivers and pedestrians have to avoid dangerous situations caused by bikers and people on scooters.

Statistics are not a good indicator either because most events never get recorded. Nobody keeps statistics on how often cyclists whiz within inches of pedestrians on the sidewalk, scrape by people, or knock people over but they get right back up again with a few bruises. It doesn't get recorded unless the police get involved or somebody goes to the hospital, both of which are pretty rare. Believing you understand what's going on just by looking at statistics is terribly naive.

> both of which are pretty rare

so what you're saying is that people don't really get injured by bikes, they just get a bit rattled.

Being rattled frequently is surely enough to instill feelings of fear, right?

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