e: Actually, not going to get into it but c'mon - cars kill pedestrians in a way that bikes rarely do and removing the cars from your NY neighborhood would have an obviously better impact on pedestrians compared to the bikes.
That said, I'm still pro-bike and acknowledge that cars are much more dangerous for pedestrians, just I'd like to see the delivery bike / ebike problems fixed.
As a pedestrian in NYC I feel far more endangered by bikes than I do by automobiles. There is room for cyclists, but there has got to be some compliance with rules.
This is why legislating by "feelings" is a bad idea. Automobiles are a far larger and more lethal risk.
I agree that a certain level of abstraction 'feel' is important, but we shouldn't legislate by 'feel' about how people 'feel' about bikes, that is one level of 'feel' too many.
They are a significant piece of the reason in NYC, although car-centric road design is a larger piece.
You and several other commenters continue to ignore people pointing out seriously problems that are localized in NYC by quoting stats that are for the entire country.
even when normalized by passenger miles?
In general cars are quite lethal in aggregate but not once normalized for usage-- we drive an awful lot.
> As a pedestrian in NYC I feel far more endangered by bikes than I do by automobiles.
how do you make those two follow?
One is not a consequence of the other. However, the first is an observation in support of the idea that in general many cyclists eschew rules including those that exist for their own safety.
I remember reading that it actively makes you less safe because people wearing a helmet trust it to protect them, when in reality, basically any collision with a car will crush them.
Helmets don’t help - cycle helmet is rated to save you from a fall or from hitting a tree. It’s basically useless when hitting a vehicle, and that’s 95% of cyclist deaths. You’d have to wear a full motorcycle helmet.
> weave in and out of heavy traffic
I’ve seen that too. But I’ve never seen it happen in an area with segregated cycle way.
There were 2000 pedestrians killed by cars in NYC from 2018 to 2021 and only 12 killed by bicycles.
https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-pedestrian...
2) Bicycle/pedestrian are under reported.
3) I am specifically referring to my experience in Manhattan. In large portions of Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx I think my attitude would be different.
(Also thanks for the link - poking around the DOT site they have some great information. Surprised to see how many pedestrian fatalities involved alcohol — on the part of the pedestrian!)
Plenty of stories of grandmas getting knocked down by rollers and bikers in Central Park back then too.
Sorry but the stats just don't bear this out.
I've lived in dense cities my entire life. Stories, anecdotes, etc. do not reflect the reality of what is more likely to cause you harm.
so what you're saying is that people don't really get injured by bikes, they just get a bit rattled.
Honking within urban areas is forbidden unless used to prevent immediate danger (well, in France anyway).
Honking for "educational purpose", ie to yell at someone, is a major nuisance. Every honk annoys dozens of people around the driver, wakes up babies and so on.
Friends, don't let friends honk inconsiderately.
Aside: I really wish cars had two different horns. A nice little boop horn, to say "hey I'm here" or "lights green buddy" and then the big honking thing that says "you nearly hit me by rolling through that stop sign, pay better attention"
I really wish cars didn't have horns. Or that horns would be louder inside than outside for drivers to "feel" it accordingly.
99% of the honks I hear are useless to prevent any incoming danger (too late, honking to say "hi", honking to express displeasure...)
I've used the horn once in the last 10 years, and I shouldn't have.
It is used a lot, but without actual benefit IMHO.
Edit: perhaps less useless since drivers tend not to look before changing lane. That's another issue.
https://law.justia.com/cases/washington/supreme-court/2011/8...
The Pacific Northwest has always had a libertarian streak, I doubt this would be ruled permissible in other states.
The drivers in NYC are comparatively safe. They drive relatively slowly (compared to other parts of the country), pay attention to pedestrians, and obey traffic lights and signs.
> bikers aren't routinely failing to yield to pedestrians
I didn't say that, I think it is true. That said, I also think pedestrians sometimes have an expectation that a biker would yield in a place where they wouldn't even try with a car (ie. crossing the road between two vehicles into the bike lane).
This is what you said, and what I am responding to.
Also, I would suggest that deaths from drivers are probably only higher because the probability of a collision being fatal is a lot higher when one party in the collision is 2 tons, and that the fatality rate is not a good proxy for the rate of total accidents (even the rate of total accidents where someone ends up in a hospital). I have not seen a credible measurement for that, but I would expect from what I have seen in my 6 years living in Manhattan that the accident rate with bikes is a lot higher than it is with cars, and that so is the rate of injuries. As a pedestrian, my chance of getting killed in a traffic accident are so astronomically low that I actually care a lot more about my probability of being injured than my probability of being killed.
Are they really? You have a higher chance of being killed by a car while you are inside a building, than you are of being killed by a cyclist.
Also, I'm not concerned about getting killed by a cyclist. I'm concerned about getting hit by one. Those are not the same thing.
https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-pedestrian...
There are ~300 pedestrian injuries caused by bikes every year vs 10,000 caused by cars.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/nyregion/elderly-pedestri...
Your feelings about bikes are in direct contradiction with the data.
What matters is the chance of getting hit at all. I still have not seen a credible study about causes of accidents involving an injured pedestrian.
Like I said again, I have yet to see a credible study counting non-fatal injuries from bikes in the city. Someone could do this, for example, by randomly sampling ER patients to see how many were involved in bicycle-pedestrian crashes, but nobody has.
Also, that NYT article is almost a pro-bike op-ed in its tone, and I would suggest finding sources that at least sound a little more neutral on your issues of choice.