It likely varies by area and average income, here it's almost an inverse correlation - the less-well off kids at school tend to have parents on iPhones and the comfortable parents are on whatever works for them.
I’m astounded by the fact that one can imply with a straight face no less that over half the market are status-driven dorks that have no legitimate reason to use an iPhone over an Android phone, the obviously superior for all people in all circumstances choice used by the enlightened few that aren’t concerned with such banal things as social status.
Occam’s razor would imply that this view is perhaps wrong and that you’re just missing something.
I use an iPhone for a lot of reasons. One of these is that I’m legally blind. For my purposes, accessibility features on iOS easily run rings around those on Android. Full stop. Arguing against that is ridiculous. Sectioning me out and saying “I wasn’t talking about you@ because disability is a sacred cow is ridiculous.
Just please don’t make these conversations so charged with this tired old rhetoric that simultaneously chastises such a wide group for imagined status-seeking in a way that simultaneously ties your own (non-iPhone) choice in to an imagined desirable personality trait.
And as a professional developer that uses a mac (that is by far the best bang for the buck if you're not into gaming) it just makes sense to pick an iphone instead of an android due to the ecosystem value. I doubt many people in developed countries care that much about the fact that you use an apple device or not, that's the kind of shit you'd expect from developing nations like Brazil (where I'm from), where they do remain a status symbol mostly because the population in general is still pretty poor.
Honest question: what ecosystem are you referring to? Apple watch? Additional hardware you bought? Or are you talking about software?
Because my guess would have been that Apple users are typically embedded in Google's ecosystem as well (Chrome, Maps, Gmail, YouTube, etc).
And it's not clear to me how using a MacBook would influence your phone choice.
The same reason you use Chrome and then also Google Maps and Gmail. Just swap a Mac with Chrome and an iPhone with Gmail.
There are lots of little features like being able to copy on my iPhone and then it’s saved into a shared clipboard so that I can paste into my Mac. Those kinds of things (there are many, many others and you can look them up for yourself) are why someone would be influenced to choose an iPhone if they are using a Mac.
As an aside I think most users across all platforms use Google’s ecosystem but I would expect Apple users to use it less than others since Apple provides good enough alternatives such as Safari, Apple Maps, iCloud, etc.
Yeah this is what I was thinking. Apple users will tend to use two ecosystems instead of one.
Personally, I wouldn't even think about my laptop when choosing a phone. But I would think about the fact that I use several Google services and I'd rather not duplicate them with Mac accounts/apps.
Now I'm sure all of these things are possible on other platforms using extra software but in the ecosystem it's all zero setup, instantly integrated and quite reliable.
Girls absolutely covet iphones like sacred cows. some go as far as to not date guys who use android. its weird but I've seen it myself.
iPhone -> pragmatism
"Quierro un iphone!!"
its definitely not an american only thing
For me, an iPhone is better than any Android phone. I don’t know why this is surprising to many people.
It is true about phones though, especially when you consider how badly all the big brands except apple and Google add unremovable money making spam apps to their phones.
Literally no other laptop provides a competitive battery life, screen or build even compared to the surface. I literally just bought a new laptop 3 months ago, and almost zero windows laptops were reasonably competitive with the MacBook for a dev.
Could just be because I have a powerful gaming PC, but I definitely found that windows laptops did not meet up to a decent standard.
If you as a consumer buy a nice HP Spectre, it will be more than an equivalent MacBook barring a sale or clearance. I buy 10,000 at a time, and get about 30% off.
A 15" MBA with the max 24GB RAM and a 1TB drive would cost $2100. Note the Zenbook is not on sale, has a 120Hz HiDPI OLED display and aluminum chassis.
In any case, I think the switch from Intel to ARM makes any such comparisons meaningless until we start seeing more ARM-based laptops in the same niche.
ARM and Intel laptops are directly comparable because you can compare what people can do them.
Not all ARM processors are created equal, Apple's are superior in iPhones and laptops, there's no reason to expect that to change in the near future.
Hence the words "in the same niche" in the comment to which you replied.
Plenty of people don't care about how long you can run off the battery or processing per Watt in general, just performance. For those people, there are x86 laptops that can outperform Apple's ARM-based laptops (not to mention having discrete GPI options).
You clearly do know what niche I'm referring to, since you just described it. Like you say: Apple's laptops are the sole occupants of their niche, so what would you even compare against? I'm sure there are other ARM chips out there with comparable or better "performance" per Watt, but Apple Silicon's pretty unique right now in maximizing the "performance" half of that equation instead of minimizing the "per Watt" half.
> When shopping for a laptop, there's nothing unfair about comparing ones with different processor architectures when they all can run the software needed.
I never said it was "unfair". I said it was meaningless - because it is. There are myriad metrics by which one could evaluate "performance" (per Watt or otherwise), and Apple Silicon doesn't necessarily win at all of them.
When other manufacturers start putting out ARM laptops targeting the same (or at least remotely similar) performance metrics as a Macbook targets, then there'd be a worthwhile discussion to be had.
Almost all the benchmarks out there of similarly sized laptops have the M2s (and previously had the M1s) topping the charts in single and multi threaded workloads.
Okay, well
1. Not every Macbook user is a developer
2. Not every developer has no use for a GPU
If we're going to make comparisons about performance requirements for a specific subset of a specific subset of users, then let's be explicit about that. Otherwise, arbitrarily ignoring a rather substantial contributor to overall performance is indeed arbitrary.
I didn't mention size and don't know how they compare. Size comparisons are largely related to processing per Watt because others need bigger heat pipes and fans than the Macs.
I'm basically an Apple guy and don't pay tons of attention to all the alternatives, I just recognize the Apple products are not the right choice for everyone.
Definitely wins on GPU though.
That article also compares models with more expensive add-ons, a lot of that higher Razer price is probably from the 4090. The Blade 16 price starts at $2,699 (i9-13950HX, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD, GeForce RTX 4060, 16" 240Hz QHD+). For an MBP with an M2 Max, the 14-inch starts at $3,099 and the 16-inch at $3,499. Those Macs have 32GB RAM and Razer charges +$600 for that much but the Blade has RAM slots, you can buy another 16GB for ~$50. Razer also charges a lot for an upgraded SSD (and absurd +$1,600 for 2TB instead of 1TB) but that is also replaceable at a much more affordable price. There's also a second M2 slot available so you can add storage without replacing the original drive.
Edit: the SSD upgrade cost is so high because they make you get other upgrades with it (a 4090 and 32GB RAM).
[0] https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks
[1] https://browser.geekbench.com/search?utf8=&q=Razer+Blade+16+...
Caveat. If windows matters, or you’re talking about the generation of defective MacBooks with a bad keyboard, I’d concede that a top of the line HP, Dell or Lenovo is a better choice.
I buy iPhone for a lot of reasons, 0 of which are “status”. I had no idea there was even any status. The flagship devices are all within a couple hundred bucks of each other.
The problem is fundamentally that Android users drop this microaggression all the time about how apple users are brainless sheep, who don’t have any sense and just let status drive all their purchases, and don’t even see it as offensive.
amd fanboys do the same thing with nvidia users, insisting that “mindshare” is somehow the sole reason that AMD lost ground over the years and that nvidia customers are all dumb brainless sheep too.
It’s actually quite offensive and extremely pervasive, and if you dare call it out you get people like you tut-tutting about how offensive it is to be pointing out your offensiveness.
The problem isn’t the indignant reply, that’s just human nature, the problem is the person who dropped yet another “all apple users are status-chasing sheep” thought-terminating cliche. That’s offensive and pervasive and really should stop especially here of all places. It needs to be said and you are in the wrong for shouting down the people trying to say it.
Again, I know that it’s so absolutely normalized and pervasive that android/AMD people probably don’t see “[other brand] users are brainless sheep” as being offensive, but it is. Like that’s not even a dog whistle, you’re just saying it right out loud. You’re telling a forum full of the general public that a good number of them are brainless, and you’ve been doing it for so many years that you don’t even see why that’s wrong.
MacBooks, iPhones, and nvidia cards are all quite good products and have many many things going for them, there is absolutely no call to be insulting by suggesting that people haven’t done any research because they chose a different product for their needs.
Like how poorly socialized are people that they think calling other people “brainless” to their faces isn’t offensive, or to tut-tut at other people for being upset about such conduct? Especially when here of all places people have most definitely considered the technical merit of the alternatives.
I would believe that only a small fraction of people are making their phone purchase choice on an axis other than status or price (like you).
Still working on how to get her to stop obsessing over stupid crap.
I don't know about other people, but I went iPhone specifically for the value/$. Got a used iPhone SE 2020 for $150 in late 2021, and expect to use it for 5+ years. I seriously doubt that there are any Androids out there that could get even close to that.
It really helps that Apple's CPU/SoC is substantially superior to what everyone else uses, so older iPhones tend to feel snappier. Between that and Apple's clearly superior OS support, I don't know why value shoppers who don't want to install their own firmware would go with Android.
Every Android phone I've had has lasted that long or longer. If I got less than 5 years out of any smartphone, I'd consider it faulty.
But the phones don't suddenly stop working without updates. They're still perfectly fine.
Hardware devices with embedded software couldn't get updates (or was a difficult job so didn't happen) until somewhat recently. It is unfortunate that the ability to do updates is used as a crutch to ship faulty software that then needs updates. A phone shouldn't ever need an update in its lifetime if it was properly built in the first place.
I only recently stopped using my Motorola cellphone from 2005 (only because they decommissioned the towers). It never received any update in 17 years. It also never needed any.
I would like to buy devices with that level of quality today.
For anyone who has done any serious threat modeling exercises would never ever do that from a 2023 phone (I'm fully aware many people do it regardless).w
This advice to not use a 2023 phone is just plain silly. I'm not saying it's 100% locked down, but neither is going to a bank branch and talking to someone in person.
The trick with GrapheneOS, or any privacy setup, is that it requires attention to stay reasonably secure. The OS won't matter if you enable Google services and install apps that track and sell all your data.
Or you could just use the brand that gives 6-7 years of OS updates and 10+ years of security updates out of the box…
I just don't need that in a phone and am totally fine with the limitations of a degoogled device.
I don't recommend that for most people. I was simply responding to a question of what device to consider with regards to privacy/security. I even tried to include caveats that it isn't right for everyone and had real tradeoffs.
Now you say you don't recommend that for most people?
Which is it?
> The trick with GrapheneOS, or any privacy setup, is that it requires attention to stay reasonably secure. The OS won't matter if you enable Google services and install apps that track and sell all your data.
Not sure how I could have been more clear here, I literally started by saying "if security is a concern". I stand by that, if security is a concern I would not use an iPhone or stock Android. I also stand by the assumption that for most people security isn't a concern.
So yes, I wouldn't recommend graphene for most people but I would recommend it to anyone both concerned about security and willing to sacrifice some functionality and convenience (both caveats in my original post).
You make it sound as though I changed my recommendation or story half way through. If that's your opinion, please do me a favor and point out specifically where I walked it back or contradicted myself.
My problem is, as a user, whose expertise is not 100% security, how can a layman decide which device to trust? Trust the neighbor, trust the expert who thinks is an expert, but doesn't see his own limitations, trust the newspapers parroting whatever they find (or their security advisor), trust the marmots or trust the looks, because you don't know what the silicon does. You might know one domain, but not multiple ones, like you might know the IT domain, but doesn't know the underlying physics domain, so you might think the phone is secure in the IT domain, but since you don't know jackshit about the physics, you have to again rely on someone's advice.
The iPhone is locked down tight, even security experts have complained in the past because analysing the core internals is cumbersome. But that's a double edged sword, when you can't even get basic info about phone's status without resorting to some hacking shenanigans.
Any way to know your firmware has not changed? How come there are zero tools for the layman to verify the status of his device? You don't know whether your usb's firmware is intact, whether your motherboard is a-ok and the list goes on.
According to newspapers, it is/was the panacea of security (iPhone), yet sec bugs after sec bugs are coming out all the time. You don't even have complete control over the phone, since the software switches (like wifi) are not actually disabling the wifi circuitry.
How come banks are sitting on ancient systems and are seemingly fine?
Should you trust zerodium's bounty prices, should you trust exploit brokers? (they ought to see what's an emmentaler right?)
Encrypted secure phones? Look how many criminals got caught, by putting their trust blindly into something, that someone parroted about how secure that is.
GrapheneOS says they are secure, but where are tools that show you that yes we do this and that and that solves these kinds of attacks, thwarted these attacks in the past, demonstrated?
Or should I go with an old blackberry? What about this article? https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/14/11434926/blackberry-encry...
Should you consider Mikko's advice. Use a phone that is made by a country, whose intelligence agency is not a threat to you? But how do you know that a phone, which is made in X country is actually controlled by that country's IA? And how do you know which IA is not a threat to you? :DDDDD Do you even have to fear against a nation state's capabilities or since they have unimited budget you are fucked when somehow get in their crosshairs?
It's like flipping a coin, putting your trust into someone's solution blindly.
As soon as phones got Bluetooth, you got Nokia Bluetooth viruses that would spread via public transit, and you had to go to a service center to fix it since it wasn't designed to be updated.
Even in the days of "software was complete on launch", security was absolutely abysmal and we just relied on most people being honest.
Only if "perfectly fine" means filled with security vulnerabilities and open to dozens of working exploits.
I agree if you are happy non flagship Android phones. Those are a bargain.
The pixel 6a will get 3 years of updates and 5 years of security updates. On a phone that was released 12 months ago.
So it hasn’t been tested yet. Plenty of time for google to renege on that.
The Pixel 6a is at least a cheaper phone. But the Pixel 7 are flagship prices for the same support.
iPhones have been getting this level of updates since almost day one. The last iPhone I ran into the ground was a 6 and that had 5 years of OS updates. iOS 8 through 12.
My current XR has been getting updates for almost 5 years and will get iOS 17. So at least 6 years of updates?
I installed some ROM and kept it alive (not by far as secure as using an iPhone, of course).
Google and Samsung appear to be on the same page; I think the front runners in the Android world are a lot better than some would like to give them credit for.
It's risky, especially in todays world where financial information is stored endlessly on a cell phone. 5 years+ for iphones make a very nice deprecation curve / alongside a viable resell market. It's nice to sell a 2yr old iphone for 70-80% of it's purchase price and then buy a new one and not have to worry about anything for another 5 years.
With LineageOS you get OS updates (great!) but are still vulnerable to exploits that target binary-only firmware.
I don't need the fastest, most powerful SoC. I don't need the best, super fast display. The battery life on my 4a is enough for my needs. People get way too religious about this.
I understand your preference though, I've used google's phones (Nexus then Pixel) for about a decade. They have the benefit of having one fewer cooks in the kitchen. Any other brand has to adjust to whatever dumb thing Google has done to copy iPhone in each new OS release, and then also add their own layer on top of that.
https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb
My son uses my old S10-5G (the world's first premier 5G phone, released in mid 2019 - ages ahead of Apple), and it's still regularly receiving security updates.
I don't see the 2020 SE getting software upgrades for much longer, it's already the bottom of the barrel for iOS17, so I guess you're OK to forgo those for a while ?
If your phone needs are low enough you can get by with the SE in 2026, buying a Gakaxy A series today would totally fit the bill, and you probably could get one new at the same price and way cheaper used.
To note, iOS doesn't allow alternative browsers so Safari will also be stuck in time and there will be no option to get any modern engine on the device (I'm not even sure you could get one through jailbreaking, that would be a lot of porting efforts for virtually no one on the market)
I resurrected a third gen iPad a few weeks ago for no reason, and the most interesting part was it couldn't get past Cloudflare's browser check, so couldn't even see some of simpler and primitive sites on the web.
The SE 2020 is in no danger of falling off OS updates anytime soon let alone security.
It's probably because you didn't really do any research into it. A $100 or less Pixel 4a released in 2020 will easily last 5+ years if you take care of it.
I'm not optimizing for years alive in retirement; instead, it's years of active, healthy life.
Similarly, I don't just care about years of software support in a phone - it's important how long the phone feels like it's still a snappy, responsive phone. I just don't have a lot of confidence that I'd feel that way about the Pixel 4a in 2027.
Except many people do. Friend of mine is a chef and likes to quip that people will pour the most expensive oil into their car and the cheapest into their pan. The median American takes home like 35k a year, they're not saving anything for their tombstone, they're lucky if the house is paid off by that time. Yet you see a lot of people run around with the newest top line phone. That's just conspicuous consumption.
Almost nobody except for mobile gaming enthusiasts or VR users gets meaningful premium value out of a new phone at this point. People drop serious money on new hardware every two years that they use for Whatsapp and TikTok.
At $35k/yr, you have $2500/month post tax, so at $1000 you're spending almost half your post-tax income on rent (and that's not including utilities, taxes, etc).
That math doesn't work, even in cheap places.
I've seen cheaper housing in Birmingham as well, but I don't know some of those areas nearly as well and couldn't vouch for how nice or safe they actually are outside of listing photos online
For you, maybe a better analogy would be buying cheaper food at the grocery store.
(I see a lot of restaurants serving outstanding food so it does feel like a sacrifice when we don't eat there, plus we do shop carefully and buy in bulk. I also have an iPhone.)
The problem is that what someone considers "best" is highly influential by their social environment, of which status is a part of. If the majority of your friends use Apple, and there is the whole app interactivity that you get with things like iMessage over SMS, if you value the social experience you are going to think that Apple is best.
Not everyone is this embedded in consumerism. Most of us have our proclivities & things we are biased towards (clothing, cars, travel, house, hobbies), but most people don't splurge on everything.
From what I have seen, Android phones appeal to people who want or must spend as little as possible on their phones. It also appeals to people who want to tweak and customize their phones. There is a brand appeal among some of those people to be the anti-Apple.
Apple does appeal to some for brand identity. It also seems to appeal to people who are buying a phone that they can just take out of the box and use without spending much time in setup and configuration.
That's me. I buy Apple because there's already enough hobbies in my life and I don't need my daily driver devices to also be playful area to tinker with. Give me good enough defaults and the least amount of customizability possible please thanks.
Also, anecdotally, my mom who doesn't do English stopped asking me support questions about her devices almost immediately when we switched her from Android to Apple. On Android it was like nothing ever quite worked right and she couldn't at all figure out how to do things.
That makes the iPhone far cheaper than any comparable Android phone I could have bought back then.
Maybe today Android vendors are offering longer support horizons but I've been burned multiple times and won't trust that ecosystem again.
To me this feels more like the situation where someone with money in the bank can buy $200 shoes which will last 10 years, while someone living paycheck to paycheck has to keep buying $40 shoes that fall apart after a year.
So, not necessarily Androids, but whatever they happen to choose? I'm not sure what we're observing, that people just use whatever phone they prefer? Honestly, iPhones aren't a heck of a lot more expensive than a flagship Pixel phone, especially not for a multi-year tech investment. The "iPhones are expensive" propaganda is underinformed. Apple computers on the other hand are way more expensive than the equivalent hardware in the PC ecosystem, however they also hold their value quite well for resale whereas I've found it quite difficult to offload old gaming PCs in the past. Usually people just want the CPU and GPU, if they're not older than about 4 years. The rest of the carcass just gets piled into an ever-growing closet stash of old PC components. If you have a Macbook on the other hand, you'll have a dozen people asking if it's still available every day until you sell it. Even if it's a relic, just with a working battery and hard drive.
My bias in this conversation is that I've owned an iPhone 12 since late 2020 with no signs of needing an upgrade anytime soon. I don't know anybody living in poverty but shoveling all of their money into Apple tech.
I think you're perceiving the same thing in both cases, but interpreting the data wrong re: PC hardware.
I just looked, the cheapest unlocked smart phone that Best Buy carries is $60. Yes, its pretty much garbage. But if you need to have a smart phone, and not much else, compare $60 to the cheapest iPhone ($430). So it goes with computers too. The floor on not Apple is quite a ways lower than the floor on Apple, even as the ceilings are pretty comparable. And what Apple is optimizing for is very different from what the average high-end PC manufacturer is optimizing for. When you do an oranges-to-oranges comparison of Macbooks and equivalent laptops, their prices end up pretty comparable.
Saying "iPhones are expensive" is very much akin to saying "the Mercedes G-Class is expensive". Its under-informed (as you say) only because a lot of people get iPhones (and Mercedes G-Classes) as status symbols, not for the innate capabilities.
But okay, that's cool and all, but you WILL need to refresh it 1.5x as often or more.. The Pixel 7a goes EoL on security patches in under 5 years. Meanwhile, Apple is still providing patches on iPhone 5 series products released 9 years ago, and latest iOS is available on iPhone models released almost 6 years ago.
Anyway, let's say none of that matters and that tech conservative people only hold their phones for 4 years anyway. An iPhone will hold its value better for that period of time, when you go to sell it on Craigslist. A 4 year old Google Pixel 3a XL can be bought for $72 on Swappa. An almost 5 year old iPhone XR is for sale for $195.
And that's not even to point out the iPhone SE as the other user did, which is cheaper than the Pixel 7a, though I think it would be a fair retort that the iPhone SE is more a competitor to the Pixel 6 generation. 6a being just a tad cheaper than the iPhone SE.
Thinking of tech as a multi-year investment makes the price differences negligible. It's really all about which garden you prefer to be in. Even if your credit sucks and you just need to pay cash for a phone, Swappa makes being in either garden so cheap that you hardly need to worry. And phones are so fast these days that exact tech specs hardly matter anymore unless you're big on mobile gaming.
Do you also question why people buy quality shoes or mattresses?
I do. I am 99% convinced that the majority of first world people waste way too much money on shoes that aren't any better or worse than cheaper options. Shoes don't really get all that much better than they were previously, but somehow they always change and the cost always goes up.
It's pretty frustraing, because even stuff that used to be dependable quality seems to get outcompeted by people buying stuff they replace (or would like to, if they could afford the monthly payments) as soon as the next model comes out. And so, the reliable, dependable company slumps (i.e. company making shoes that last for years), is bought-out by a hedge fund, quality goes to hell as they feed off its reputation.
So many people people say they want to buy quality, actually they want to buy is status (Rolex, Apple, Burberry, ...).
As someone with a multitude of foot issues, my options have exploded in the last couple decades.
Are there some kind of objective metrics on how modern shoes are better than shoes from 10 years ago? Are they objectively more durable? Is the shape somehow better for your feet? Because I haven't felt any of it. For me it's just like other clothing: change for the sake of change.
It used to be there was a couple pairs of shoes I could buy, now it seems as if most manufacturers have a few models that help. My last pair cost a LOT of money (Brooks), but I can tell you I've never felt a shoe as good as this one. They get better every time I buy shoes which is every 2-3 years.
Americans love to consume. They think their consumption brings them happiness. One of their most delightful purchases is a new phone.
If you replaced "Americans" with "Most people in capitalist countries who are subject to constant advertising" I'd probably agree.
That being said I agree with you about advertising getting people to buy things they don’t want or don’t need (strong need) in capitalist economies but that’s a failure of regulation and this a failure by the people.
Another experiment you can do though is look at highly capitalist countries like Norway or Denmark and look at the consumption patterns and then compare that with other capitalist countries like China (effectively capitalist) or the U.S. or Brazil and see whether or not it’s a cultural phenomenon or perhaps an economic one. As I’m sure you could guess I think it’s cultural.
Both iOS and Android stopped innovating like 5 years ago, but at least the Apple ecosystem doesn’t feel dead like Android.
iPad: Failed after a year, no replacement (we can 'upgrade') - it technically works but shuts down 3 or 4 minutes after boot.
mac Mini: Hard disk failed. Out of warranty, so bought a cheap SSD and gave it to the kids (they prefer something that plays modern games).
iPod: Old, yes, taken out of the drawer for a road trip but dead as a doornail.
Admittedly, not tried an iPhone.
My wife got a Dell first its NVM gave out a year in (never seen that happen) then - you guessed it - she updated Windows and it stopped booting.
That isn't just working. It looks like iPhone users have an extra configuration step when using this particular sim card.
I think it depends on the carrier whether APNs are required. Can be automatically set nowadays with iOS 16 according to https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201699
Not anymore. The hardware quality has gone downhill hard.
My powerbook from 2004 still works fine (kind of too slow, so I don't use it, but works fine).
In my powerbook from 2021 the entire right side of ports died less than a year into it.
Bought a macbook air in late 2022, one of the usbc ports died just a few months into its life. Which reminds me I need to take it to the store and see if they'll fix it or if I'm SOL again.
they just remove more and more stuff
Apple products are less expensive the more money you make. Not just as a relative income statement, but because of resale value. You can buy a new $1000 phone every single year and end up spending $300/year net of taxes and depreciation. You just have to have the capital that you can tie up.
It’s the flipside of fanboys - there are “hateboys” who are parasocially attached to the brand but it’s a negative parasocial attachment.
Nvidia has the same thing going on.
My wife was already using a second hand iPhone and convinced me to try it too. I got that iPhone 7 Plus for cheap, it is in really good condition and it has 256GB internal memory. I was aware it would be stuck on iOS 15, but to my surprise, Apple still sends out security updates for iOS 15. I just checked: my phone is on 15.7.7 and I noticed 15.7.8 came out just a couple of days ago. See [1].
I know that Apple is a closed eco-system and all, but for my phone I don't care that much. My phone just has to work. I still use Google products (maps, mail, calendar, keep, chat), but those run just fine on iOS. The other apps I use, are also working just fine (no performance issues).
To me, it's amazing that a phone from 2016 is still receiving security updates. That is simply non-existent in Android world. As someone who does not have the urge to always have the latest and hottest, that is very nice to see.
Wtaf? Just had to shake my head. Ironically, my S21 Ultra with 16GB of memory/512 of storage was way ahead of anything Apple had made at time of release, probably cost the same as their top model at the time, and is still punching hard with no need whatsoever for me to .. update.
I am baffled why people keep making this asinine remark.
Stock iPhone is not status. Vertu is status (and is an Android platform), moreso the Vertu Signature line. Aftermarket modded iPhones that are encrusted with gold and diamonds are status. The former is the Jane Birkin bag of the smartphones, the latter is pure bling. Both send the same message: I have done financially exceptionally well (or my daddy has paid for it).
iPhone is equally unobtanium to anyone pre-launch nor does Apple make bespoke or customised editions for anyone, both of which also obliterate its purported status symbol. Ironically, it actually makes iPhone more equal and less status compared the status smartphones.
iPhone might be a status symbol in low income countries, and so are Samsung Galaxy's, the top of the range Huawei's, Xiaomi's and whatever else expensive there is out there.
I was a die hard android fan boy. Owned nearly all android flagships.
I first was driven away from the Google branded phones because it was clear their priorities where something other than providing me the best hardware and software experience.
Then I was driven away from Samsung because too much bloat and advertisements within the core OS.
None is the home integration worked right. Too fractured and error prone.
I got tied of seeing people use their iPhones to get shit done and not needing to tinker heir damn phone all the time.
The iPhone is a tool. A well thought out tool that gets the fuxk out of my way so I can do the things I want. Android. IRS a toy. It’s an advertisement delivery vehicle. On Android you are the customer not the user.
When I'm on iPhone I miss the customizability of Android. When I'm on Android I miss the ease of use of the iPhone. Which is probably oxymoronic. Lol
It's nothing new, you could've said the same thing in the 90's about Sega, Nintendo and Playstation and with Shoes, Clothes, anything -
"People don't need high-end phones" perhaps, but somehow I don't see people making this comment about Samsung phones.
iphone 14 is only $800! Meanwhile loads of high-end Android phones are at $1000+. The meme is dead
Probably spend more on coffees or alcohol.
Appearing high status is more important than many other expenses.
No, it is just a basic functional smartphone for people who don’t like to configure these things (I’ll happily tinker all day with my Linux laptop, but smartphones are just like the worst form-factor, I want it to just work and then go away).
$429, actually.
I don't think it's that interesting a model either because it ignores the last 5 years of innovations like bezelless phones. For €349 you can get a nice midrange Android which does have a bezelless screen, fingerprint in display, oled display and often even a 3.5mm jack.
Sure it's not as fast but that's one one thing I care less about, if I need fast I'll use my computers. The phone is just for on the road.
"Only"? $600 is pretty steep. That it's not on the high end of modern phone prices is indicative of how crazy modern phone prices are.
Personally, I think they’re a heck of a bargain for what they do.
Whether or not it's worth it is a purely subjective thing.
Only? That's an inordinate amount of money for what's just a phone.
A $600 laptop is not a prestige device.
That doesn't even begin to make any sense. Can you run CAD software or serious photo processing on a phone (like DxO)? Nothing I run on a mac can run on a phone.
“Just” a phone would make and receive phone calls and that’s it.
i would argue the phone app on an iPhone is the least used function of the phone. It's certainly not "just a phone".
For the type of people here that like to tinker with tech this might be a non-issue, but some other people just want to use the device to accomplish tasks with as little friction as possible.
what does this even mean in this context?
>bloatware, OEM specific UIs
The problem here is calling in "ecosystem of Android", it is mainly Andriod vs Samsung. You are either in the Samsung Ecosystem (i.e Samsung UI) or in the Andriod world, Most of the other vendors, the few there are, run close to stock Andriod these days.
Then of-course there is Pixel's Pure Android.
Not really all that confusing, if you can not figure it out then I trust your better served by iPhone.... you likely have also given up on computers completely as windows or linux is far too complicated for you.
>> confusing accessory compatibility
what?
>>a marketplace full of malware
Yes, user freedom bad, must only have applications that Mr Tim approves.
> what does this even mean in this context?
The OEM doesn't have a store in the mall that will help an elderly family member with it. The OEM stops publishing updates after the phone leaves the shelf. etc.
> Most of the other vendors, the few there are, run close to stock Andriod these days.
Which is a gigantic pain in the butt when you're trying to talk your mother through the settings menu over the phone to change one setting, and the OEM decided that was the one feature they wanted to move/rename/omit/customize.
> if you can not figure it out then I trust your better served by iPhone.... you likely have also given up on computers completely as windows or linux is far too complicated for you.
> Yes, user freedom bad, must only have applications that Mr Tim approves.
That's the thing, it shouldn't take someone like me to use a phone. Phones are mass market devices that children, elderly, disabled, and uneducated people use.
I really really despise this narrative in modern society where by everyone must lower their standards, expectations, or limit themselves so we can cater to the lowest common denominator of society.
This is like saying we need to limit the speed on highways to 20 because some people can not figure out how to drive at 70...