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Comment by no_wizard | Hacker News Reader

I consider it the fact that Walmart for a long time had a mostly rural and suburban strategy that skews demographics to people 40+. It’s a Sam Walton hold over that I think is being slowly replaced.

What WalMart hates the most is that they can’t get people of affluence who want to save money to shop at one though. When I worked there the complaint out of HQ I heard the most is that Michelle Obama and Oprah would shop at a Target but never step foot in a Walmart despite having identical goods but Walmart has better prices

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I'm surprised they care. I can't speak for all "people of affluence who want to save money", but personally I feel that everything about the experience is catered towards a person who values small discounts a lot more than their own time. the inventory is barely organized and I have to walk all the way around the store before I even find the right section. it's even harder to find a human employee who might know where to find the thing I'm looking for.

target isn't a whole lot better, but at least they have more staff wandering around to ask for help. I'll pay an extra 20 cents on my megapack of paper towels every time if that gets me out of the store faster.

it has a negative impact on their brand perception and top line growth. Except when the economy blips into recession their growth seemingly caps at 2-4% a year, sometimes essentially remaining flat.

I always thought the secret weapon to attracting wealthier shoppers is their far too under-capitalized and under-utilized Sam's Club model that is similar to Costco, but not Costco. I think thats what they should have invested in far more to attract the wealthier demographic. Most upper middle class+ people I know shop at Costco varying from often to religiously. Same with Trader Joes, actually.

I always thought Walmart was the "lesser" brand personally, but HQ never seemed to grasp this

From my experience (S. California) the Sam's club is more expensive. So despite one ironically being next to my Wal-mart I still prefer driving the extra 5 miles to Costco.

slightly cheaper food court (and IMO slightly better tasting food, especially the pizza) is a nice draw as well.

The harsh lighting and reflective white paint literally hurts my eyes in Walmart. Like there's a low-grade sting and I'm slightly squinting for the duration of my shopping trip. Target doesn't have this problem, and I'm willing to pay a slight premium if it's convenient.

Maybe they can fix that first.

Wal-Mart, uniquely among large stores I've been in, makes me feel bad. I don't remember this being the case, say, 20 years ago. It seems to have worse over time. I think it's the lighting and design, though I'm not sure exactly what about it. Walking in instantly makes me miserable. Probably doesn't help that shoppers and workers alike all look sad, constantly (but how much of that is because the store itself is doing that to them?)

Also, nobody in them seem to know how to exist in public without constantly being in the way. Wal-Mart has an uncanny ability to feel crowded while not actually being crowded. I don't get it.

But it is crowded. The aisles are easily 18" narrower than they were 20 years ago. I distinctly remember the last time my local Walmart remodeled and you could see the shadows of the old shelves and aisles on the floor still.

Yes, Target seems to explicitly use warmer lighting and earth tones. Walmart is flourescent light and shades of blue. It's awful.

Narrow isles and harsh lighting are another part of the marketing strategy. It’s supposed to make you feel like they’ve cut every corner to bring the lowest price to you, the shopper!

I H-A-T-E going to WalMart. I have to go every once in a while, because that's the only place that I can find one particular item that I use frequently, and that's only if I forget to buy it online where it costs a bit more.

I do my normal shopping at a grocery store where everything is probably 10-15% more expensive. Why? 5 reasons.

1. Paper bags. I hate plastic ones.

2. I'm not forced through the self checkout. Walmart has almost no cashiers any more, and the two that they do have (for all 30 registers) are hidden, except for the fact that there's a huge line of people there, all with overflowing carts.

3. I'm tired of having to wait 20 minutes just to stand in a checkout line. It happened so often at Walmart (even with self-checkouts) that I was fed up with it. The longest I have ever had to wait at the grocery store is 5 minutes, and often there's no wait at all.

4. Carry-out. It's nice for some young kid to have an after-school job helping me load water into my car. It's nice not having to find the carousel to return the shopping cart to. It's nice having a quick conversation with someone. It's standard at my 24-hour grocery store. It's an act of congress and a long wait at WalMart.

5. Walmart treats you as if you're trying to steal everything everywhere. They put cameras up everywhere that ding at you as you pass by. They take pictures of you as you use the self-checkout. They check your receipt when you try to leave. I'm sick of being treated as if I'm a criminal when I haven't done anything wrong. So I refuse to go there.

I can choose to spend $100 at Walmart, or $115 at a grocery store without having to put up with 1-5. I will choose that any day of the week.

Speaking of checkouts, there is a chain of mega-sized employee-owned grocery stores in the upper Midwest that has the perfect checkout system. You pull your cart up to the register, and they pull items directly out of the cart to scan/bag them, and put the bags in another cart at the foot of the register. You don't event have to lift a finger until you go to put the bags (paper or plastic) in your car trunk.

The parking lot is another item. Instead of the rows going perpendicular to the front of the store, where you are constantly crossing at the pedestrian entrance, the parking is lengthwise across the store. So you can cruise up and down the aisles without driving by the front of the building. And no matter where you park, you are only 2 - 4 rows back from the building.

> What WalMart hates the most is that they can’t get people of affluence who want to save money to shop at one though.

Inflation is doing the trick[0]. For several quarters, they've reported marked increases in the share of higher-income shoppers, especially for groceries.

[0]: https://www.axios.com/2023/05/18/inflation-walmart-prices-ea...

This happened in 2008 too with the housing downturn. Part of the store boom I participated in was fueled by that growth.

The problem is they can’t manage to keep most of them once the economy bounces back, and growth slows significantly (their top line growth was only 2-4% per year for most of the 2010s and they still aren’t profitable on e-commerce)

Maybe since inflation is a different beast it will capture more consumers like this, we shall see

We shall see, indeed. I believe that this round of inflation is going to stick around for a while for to geopolitical reasons: decreasing globalization, China no longer exporting deflation to the rest of the world. As someone who has only ever seen sovereign bond yields go down over time, it'll be interesting.

very interesting, I wonder if they picked up on my demographic and kept pestering for reviews and feedback when I let it out regarding my price experience shopping there and noting explicitly the lack of inflation increase I had seen elsewhere at the other stores I frequent. I definitely contributed a data point to these reports referenced above.

"What WalMart hates the most is that they can’t get people of affluence who want to save money to shop at one though"

I guess you can't be everything to everybody...

Maybe don't strew pallets of junk in the middle of aisles if you want to go upmarket?

yah, it's a much more cluttered and crowded experience. The demographics who shop there too are lower class and bring with them less attuned social dynamics and courtesies and other subtle etiquettes that are desired when out in public. People who are oblivious to blocking things, looking past you while they cross your path and cut you off with a shopping cart, being loud or verbally obnoxious, at times unbathed, etc etc. A certain class of folks would rather bubble themselves from such experiences.

"less attuned social dynamics and courtesies and other subtle etiquettes that are desired when out in public" That's a lovely way of saying it.

Target does this too. It’s common in most supermarkets nowadays

they make up for it somewhat with pleasant looking pallets, those big red plastic things, vs raw rough looking wood. I get a sense Target has less downtime with this inventory layover sort of thing. Walmart can have pallets out that people are expected to pick over and shop on and which need to be restocked. Also Target just has more cushioned margins for their aisles where the footprint of a pallet has less impact in your sense of space than Walmarts where a significant percentage of the aisle is occupied by these monstrosities.

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