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Comment by konschubert | Hacker News Reader

Is this general advice or specific to Paris?

And what is the background here?

This rule applies to any water near land. You get runoff from dog, cat, bird defecation among whatever chemicals may be found on land. This is even if storm water sewage does not overflow.

I lived in Key West for half of my life. I got addicted to swimming daily and would always go, no matter what. Now I have sinusitis caused cluster headaches. When I trace back events, the first one happened about a year into the swimming. Now they are truly debilitating.

I would even add not swimming during an out-going tide if the water passes by nasty land. (nasty = like seemingly lovely mangroves where birds live or bird poo covered rocks)

Now I always check water quality reports to find the cleanest water on vacation as well. Most places do them, even if not advertised.

just a heads up that microdosing dmt (non psychoactive doses, just a mg or two) are game changing instant cures for some forms of cluster headaches. Can be worth moving to a locale where plant based medicine has at least been decriminalized.

I have tried everything including off-label surgery, that's one I have not. Thanks.

By off-label surgery are you referring to trepanning? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanning

Also, on a possibly constructive note, have you investigated mycotoxins or heavy-metals (as a possible cause)?

> By off-label surgery are you referring to trepanning? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanning

Wow! Jeez, I mean the thought of doing that myself has certainly crossed my mind in semi-jest, mid attack, but nope.

I found this old study [0] and based on that I had endoscopic sinus surgery. It stopped a 9 month cluster and I did not have another attack for almost a year. The surgeon did it because my sinuses were opaque, but the reason I did it was with the hope of the chance of cluster benefit.

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8924166/

Poor you! It must be so painful :(

Are there any foods or drinks that bring it on or make it worse or better? Sorry if it's a dumb question, I'm just curious!

Thanks. Alcohol or an empty stomach brings them on, or sometimes they just happen.

There is an instant solution to stop the pain, it’s in that study as a footnote I believe. But it’s illegal, extremely habit forming, and very expensive.

I have heard that there is a new novocaine nasal spray coming out. That should do the trick if I can ever get my hands on it.

Just as another data point, my ex-girlfriend also had debilitating cluster headaches. Psilocybin, not microdosing just tripping on it, would make it stop for a couple of months.

Also, you might be familiar that taking pure oxygen during an attack in known to stop the attack. The problem is that it builds a tolerance were you need more and more which brings problems of its own.

I know someone who's had success stopping an in-progress visual migraine with low dose psilocybin.

They tried it based on some published research. Here's one such study. https://n.neurology.org/content/66/12/1920

Do you have any studies you can point me toward on this?

A quick pubmed search of `("cluster headache" OR "migraine") AND ("dmt" or "dimethyltryptamine"), 14 results, has nothing relevant.

Not all truth is published -- but I frequently see poor claims of using psilocybin ("magic mushrooms") to treat migraine/cluster headache, of which, the clinical effects are potentially dubious [0], [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] in particular which I believe to be an effect driven by the desperation for treatment [6], [7] when nothing else has worked.

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22129843/ [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33184743/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35718005/ [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16801660/ [4] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36597700/ [5] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36416492/ [6] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28870224/ [7] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30290701/

I get really worried about people suggesting psychoactive drugs with no clinical proof for it :(

Not sure about DMT, but LSD seems to show promise.

https://www.science.org/content/article/lsd-alleviates-suici...

Not really, it's mostly gathered from cluster headache forums online.

I did not know this, thanks for sharing!

Where do you check water quality. I live in Israel and have a hard time finding water quality reports.

Israel, the country of a thousand lakes. :-)

It does have a coastline, and presumably certain beaches will be closer or further from sewage outflows or may be affected by algal blooms or oil spills what have you.

I surfed near rivers and storms drains my whole life and never had an issue, YMMV.

Where?

Old cities have combined sewage system, and storm water mixes with poop. Then it comes out of the storm drain into the river Newer cities have separate systems for storm drainage and for human waste.

Mostly in Australia

I had never heard about this rule, so thank you for the write up. It's one of those things that should be in a random stupid things not to do in your like rulebook that should exist.

I have a few of these rules, that I picked up at random points in my life that either saved my life later on or caused permanent damage because I was young and stupid and didn't bother listening to my elders experiences.

I have a few of these rules

Interesting, can you share some other such rules?

That'd be interesting yes

Here are some (obvious ones?). Loud music, tinnitus. No seat belt, wheelchair. Drink salt water, get more thirsty.

I have this one with power tools: "Power tool, power cool", which is intentionally silly, and that just means that if I'm using a power tool I'll put on safety glasses.

Nice. “Power cool” sounds so much better than “safety squints.”

I’ve read drinking a small amount of salt water a single time during a survival situation can be beneficial versus no water. I leave it to readers to research this themselves further

  > Now I always check water quality reports to find the cleanest water on vacation as well.

Where to find these reports? Say, for Israel or Greece?

Are you sure it was related to the pollution/run off? Or is that just a guess?

It could possibly and simply be the fact you swam every day. A few years ago I bought my first house with a pool and have had a pool since. I swam every day for a couple years (~8 months/year), then this year I'm having a ton of swimmer's ear & sinusitis issues. My pool water is about as clean as it gets for outdoor swimming. And for me at least has been more correlated with frequency of contact with water than anything else. If my ears or sinuses act up, I take a week off from the pool and it gets better.

I cannot be 100% sure - see bio - but I am pretty sure.

All Key West waters are shitty water according to easily searchable stats, but rain runoff makes it much worse. [0]

To get to your point though, I had always hated chlorinated water even more. It will absolutely destroy your mucous membrane even if it is "clean." This destroys your first line of defense and can lead to all kinds of sensitivity after you leave the water. I believe that's the off-label benefit of those nose clips.

[0] Here is the actual "48 hour rule"

https://www.theswimguide.org/2015/10/27/48-hour-rule-protect...

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+it+safe+to+swim+after+rai...

Heavy rain tends to overloads combined sewer systems, leading to potential discharge of untreated sewage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_sewer#Health_impacts

This is a big problem for cities as they grow - heavy rains cause sewage outflow events. Chicago has spent 3 billion dollars on a massive underground tunnel system to try and mitigate this to help clean up the Chicago river.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_and_Reservoir_Plan

Some more reading about the river cleanup project:

https://interactive.wttw.com/chicago-river-tour/can-we-swim-...

Anyways - yes - lots of cities near watersheds have this problem. I would say most - fecal coliform counts have been high enough to justify warnings a variety of places I've fished or vacationed. Sometimes not that big of cities.

Sewer overflows will put a lot of really bad stuff into the river in massive quantities.

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