Paris to bring back swimming in Seine after 100 years

People there don't regularly assault people on the street, brandish firearms, or drive vehicles without number plates. There is a possibility for law enforcement to set social expectations around dumping such that people don't actually do it out of fear of serious legal consequences.

Time to enforce littering fines.

Seriously, as a French person living in Belgium, I am disgusted with how little of a shit people give about keeping their own city clean.

If we start enforcing littering fines a bit more in western europe, this shit will stop within a couple of years. It's 100% cultural and this is something we absolutely have to change in our culture.

Given that the article mentions that there will be officially held races/ marathons, I suspect that there will be a lot of money being put into keeping the water clean and safe. It seems like the city has been very invested in improving the water quality of the Seine and I expect that to continue with the additional pressure of human swimmers.

I cannot emphasize enough how important this part is. I have a major incurable health issue from ignoring this rule.

I also live in Meudon (in the hills); I recently bought an inflatable kayak to try it on the Seine but have not dared use it yet, and so far also failed to convince my kids to try it with me ;-(

    Here we are, born to be kings
    We're the princes of the universe
    Here we belong, fighting to survive
    In a world with the darkest powers
    Heh
    And here we are, we're the princes of the universe
    Here we belong, fighting for survival
    We've come to be the rulers of you all

https://www.visitcopenhagen.com/copenhagen/activities/baths-...

It might have a slight upper hand in cleanliness with being directly connected to the sea.

while the thames can be swam upriver of Putney Bridge, there are conditions as the Thames is a busy river. but there are other spots in London where one can do wild swimming.

for example:

london royal docks https://loveopenwater.co.uk/swimming-london-royal-docks/

canary wharf: https://canarywharf.com/whats-on/open-water-swimming/

the famous ponds in hampstead heath: https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/green-spaces/ha...

the famous hyde park lido: https://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/hyde-park/things-to-see-...

There are lots of canals and rivers all across The Netherlands and people are swimming in them more and more. When I used to live in Utrecht the idea of swimming in the Oudegracht was disgusting. But I was visiting last month and saw people doing it. I still wouldn't swim in that canal.

We had a rubble beach and the river only was 1m deep for half its width.

Was pretty nice. The water was colder than in the lakes and it came with a natural counter-current system, so you could swim in-place.

Going down the Aare river from Thun/Uttigen to Bern is a hugely popular activity to do in summer, but every year a few people drown. Even so, I'd recommend it.

https://madeinbern.com/en/stories/along-the-aare-river-2#:~:...).

It's in England it is called Bolton Strid. I'm not in England myself I just read about it.

Most currents can't pull you under the water. There are notable exceptions such as obstructions, dams and rapids which can form "keepers", or sudden depth or width changes that can make the water flow extremely fast and turbulent beneath the surface (such as the strid), but those sorts of situations aren't that common.

Most drownings in rivers and lakes where someone was apparently pulled under are actually due to cold water shock. The water beneath the surface of a river can be extremely cold, which can immediately paralyse even the most experienced swimmer.

Worse, sometimes the water can be a lot colder than other times, or colder in the middle than at the sides, meaning the river could be safe sometimes and not other times, and it might seem fine when you first get in, only to find you rapidly fatigue as you move further away from the bank.

There is a logic step I'm missing here. I fail to see how a closed canal system is safer. Will the dirty water not, by definition, end up in the lowest point anyway, i.e. the river? Whether the canals are open or closed? I mean, the dirty water is not just going to disappear, is it?

Alligators and poisonous snakes are not as much of an impediment to swimming as you would think. Here in Florida, we have plenty of people swimming in springs, lakes, and rivers that have gators in or nearby. The gators know to stay far away from people whose splashing and noise disrupt the fish and small animals they eat.

You can go to springs that get absolutely packed full all summer long, to where you can't swing your arms without hitting someone else, canoe 100yd outside the (unmarked) swimming area, and see gators sitting idly by near the banks without a care in the world.

next time drop the bilge....in a spot that common sense would dictate.

What you did was illegal. Boats are not allowed to discharge waste into water inland or at sea unless 10 miles out at sea (USA and I'm sure most other nations). If caught the fines are quite severe. You must flush into a holding tank which is emptied by vacuum while at port. OR discharge once far out at sea.

Though since you rented this was likely operator error due to inexperience. Some boats have different plumbing systems with a Y valve that diverts to holding tank or overboard. Some boats have no Y valve so they flush directly into a tank that also has a macerator pump that empties the tank while at sea. The pump switch is usually on the dashboard OR sometimes in the bathroom and people mistake the macerator pump button for the flush button. Or they try to turn something on the dash and hit the macerator pump switch by accident.

Next time you rent a boat please make sure you are familiar with the sewage system function. The rental facility will show you how it operates properly.

I can imagine that having a clean river is good for many things, and they will keep using this facility?

Paris like most older cities has a combined storm and sewage system. The problem always is when there is too much rain the treatment plant can't handle the volume so it get dumped into the river untreated. To fix that they're building a huge holding reservoir so they can capture sewage + storm water and feed it slowly into the waste treatment plant instead of dumping it into the Seine.

Added. I've read elsewhere that the Seine is often safe to swim in already. Hope is this will turn often safe to to always or usually safe.

Or any near-urban seawater after a first rainfall after dry spell. Because of runoff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Ramsey_(mathematician)#E...

You may not want to look up if swimming in the Thames is safe.

Brisbane (where I live) the river is affectionately called 'the brown snake' mainly because of silt. Even though sand mining/dredging has ended, the river is silty still. Is that why swimming isn't recommended? No: its because upstream on oxley creek, major industrial and agricultural runoff issues during historic floods in the last 10-20 years have raised contamination, fecal coliform and other problems such that you risk serious antibiotic resistant bugs if you accidentally ingest too much, or get it in cuts (I know because I row, and a rowing colleague wound up on IV antibiotics with amputation being discussed from a deep cut)

When it floods in brisbane, associated creeks continue to leach the effects of 100+ years of industrial waste and effluent into the water. Nearby cities have land which is capped 2m deep over what was septic tank discharge, it is said that shigella is still a significant risk if you dig into the soil. I don't know, I thought it died, but perhaps it persists?

Well.. that and the bullsharks but we're talking about pollution.

Yes, the Thames is coming back to life and significant fish numbers have risen in the last decade, we're miles off "the great stink" which caused Bazalgette to construct the sewers on the riverbank. Is it always entirely safe to "be in" -well no. Sources upstream occasionally dump sewage overflow along the length of the Thames. Its meant to be emergency only, but sewage overflow has to be dealt with pretty rapidly. They try not to. What do you do, when the system is overloaded?

I am amazed Paris has been able to restore river health enough to do this. Well done!

I think your assumptions around liberal European countries is seriously flawed.

But there are still lots of other rivers where remediation takes still place, e.g. because the rivers was used for raw sewage.

You have to understand that the current-day environmentalism is only a recent phenomena, while the waters have been getting polluted for centuries. It just takes lot of time and effort to turn that around.

It has been discussed every now and then, but it's always too complicated, or the solutions available aren't liked by the people in charge.

I'm in my 40s, and river pollution started decades if not at least a century before I was born. You just weren't as aware as a child.

Although the mayor who actually does it is socialist, it was initiated by a right-wing mayor (Jacques Chirac, who went on to become president) famously announcing he would himself swim in the Seine in the 90s (he didn't).

a) it was probably not cleaner 100 years ago, but that's the year when swimming in the Seine was banned because of pollution

b) Paris is not really downstream of any large city on the Seine and most of the pollution by far is produced by Paris and its suburbs, not by Troyes 150 km upstream.

What they are doing to reduce pollution is explained in detail in the linked article.

This word doesn't have the same meaning in Europe, than it has in the US. "Socialist" mainly describes some sort of social democratism, even when some people calling themselves socialist won't accept that label for themselves.

On the other hand in the US you seem to call everything left of the republicans "socialist" and everything left of right wing democrats "marxist". And you even label totally unrelated things like gender expression "marxist".

_Cleaner_? I'd assume it was _far_ worse 100 years ago.

I'm not sure what the mayor being socialist has to do with it. All across Europe, in every political system, there are water cleanup projects. Pretty much any big old city is going to have these problems unless you do _serious_ remediation.