Comment by goodbyesf | Hacker News Reader

Comment by goodbyesf | Hacker News Reader

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> Many people (both poor and rich) are leaving china, places with sharia law, and moving to the west.

The countries with the highest per capita immigration are in the middle east, not in 'the west'.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-immigration-by-co...

Do you think they are moving to the middle east because of their love of sharia law? Or do you think they are moving they for economic opportunities?

People move to 'the west' for the same reason tens of millions of europeans moved to america in the 19th and 20th century. For money. We were the land of milk and honey or that's what they were told. Do you think millions of italians, germans, irish, etc came to america for the nonexistent classic liberalism?

People come here for the economic opportunity that doesn't exist in their countries - much of the time because 'the west' invaded, destroyed or destabilized it. China being one of the many countries 'the west' invaded, destroyed and destabilized.

Their definition includes "Foreign workers", aka kafala. These people live in the country to work and accrue money for their families back home while they live in compounds and rarely directly interact with the host population.

The host countries are largely empty husks which have very unproductive labour. They offset the productivity gap with oil revenues to bring in cheap labour keeping their quality of life higher.

And yes, big IMHO to everything I said. I don't carry source in my back pocket.

Well, if you are self-selecting your comparison to wealthy immigrants looking for economic freedom to enjoy their wealth you are obviously going to get a very particular outcome as to the countries they choose. The "cuban ex-pat" scenario, so to speak.

Working class immigration is still immigration in general.

Your point is straight-up bonkers and the data you yourself cite disproves it. Comparing the UAE (one country, an outlier at that, due to their subsidized incentives) to the collective immigration to Australia + USA + Western Europe + Japan + South Korea is beyond disingenuous. But hey, you do you.

> much of the time because 'the west' invaded, destroyed or destabilized it

You know who destabilized my country? The USSR. I've heard nightmare stories from my grandparents and parents (who lived 35+ years under communism). Boy am I glad to be an American and I wouldn't give up my citizenship for anything. I'll gladly pay taxes even if end up living elsewhere.

> Your point is straight-up bonkers and the data you yourself cite disproves it.

Ad hominems isn't an argument.

> Comparing the UAE (one country, an outlier at that, due to their subsidized incentives) to the collective immigration to Australia + USA + Western Europe + Japan + South Korea is beyond disingenuous.

I wrote the middle east, not the UAE. Very curious. So you are being disingenuous here by misrepresenting my claim. The wealthy countries of the middle east - uae, saudi arabia, kuwait, qatar, etc have more immigration per capita than the US and any country in europe. Why are you including Japan and South Korea when both are highly averse to immigration and are not part of 'the west'?

> You know who destabilized my country? The USSR.

What country is that? It's a good thing the USSR is gone then. Maybe the same should happen to 'the west'? Are you saying it's okay for 'the west' to destabilize countries but not the USSR? I don't even know what your point is here.

> Boy am I glad to be an American and I wouldn't give up my citizenship for anything.

Why would you? Did I say you should?

> I'll gladly pay taxes even if end up living elsewhere.

What? Go ahead.

It's like you build up a strawman on top of a strawman and got confused along the way. All I'm saying is people immigrate to 'the west' for the same reason they immigrate to the middle east. For money and economic opportunities. Like you and everyone else did. Take australia. The biggest immigrant group in australia is the british. Do you think the british moved to australia for 'classical liberalism' and 'western values'?

> You know who destabilized my country? The USSR. I've heard nightmare stories from my grandparents and parents (who lived 35+ years under communism). Boy am I glad to be an American

Both things can exist at the same time. America plays a very equal role in world destabilization in the Cold War era to that of USSR, while also the USSR could be a nightmare under communism for the common person.

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