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Comment by nottorp | Hacker News Reader

How about teaching kids self control and concentration?

Because these things are addictive? You can say the same for drugs, alcohol, and most people that consume those are adults, how can you expect kids to do what adults can't? You see 90% of people in the buses, trains looking their phones like idiots (including me). It is very difficult because it creates addiction.

Reminds me of looking at old photos of people in bars or planes all smoking.

> You see 90% of people in the buses, trains looking their phones like idiots (including me).

Isn't that just making the best of a bad situation? I am guilty myself, but at the same time I forget that I even have a device when not subject to such drudgery. Addiction usually implies a greater compulsion.

Which, too, explains why this ban is only targeted at schools and not in general like drugs. While there are some skillful teachers, most aren't worth your time. As such, the phones come out as a distraction. In my pre-smartphone youth we were doodling in our notebooks, or what have you, instead but the motivation was the same.

You werent doodling in your book while walking in public or mid pee in the urinal. You weren’t doodling to the point you have chronic neck pain and a screwed up posture. You weren’t getting mad or depressed at what you were doodling either.

Have those adults been taught about self control and concentration in school?

sure, we can also teach them to not eat junk food while living inside mcdonalds, how hard can it be, its just self control.

Yes. Forget the free internet. We win the moral battle. That's what really matters.

It doesn't work this way.

How resisting the temptation of using a phone AT SCHOOL, a place where most kids don't want to be, will be rewarded so they can learn the benefits of self control?

It makes no sense!

It is already hard for most kinds understand that school is good for them to make it more difficult already and force them ignore the temptation of the phone.

Really, most people who talk about exercising self control or improving it have never had to had self control in the firt place.

Such a thing is easier said than done. While self control and concentration can be taught, it is probably the case that schoolchildren just aren't up to the challenge of resisting smartphones at such a young age. Especially when it seems like most adults aren't capable of exercising restraint when it comes to smartphone usage.

I assume the logical conclusion to this is to allow kids access to all things we find addictive but have put behind an age gate, like cigarettes, booze, and car rentals

Yeah, that fits. Leave the phone at home, or in a locker and go to class. How is that not also helping with self control?

That's eliminating the temptation forcefully, not training to ignore it.

You enforce discipline from an extrinsic source until the expectations are understood and self discipline takes over. Works with dogs, soldiers and kids the same. Doesn't work with cats sadly.

And the best thing you can do is model the behavior of putting your phone away and out of sight for things like meals and family time.

This is exactly how we fought the war on drugs! I'm sure it will go great!

It's sad how addiction implies "be more tolerating because it'll happen anyways and be worse if you aren't", though.

I'm not saying that addicted people should just be thrown aside. At the same time, since addiction implies an altered mental state like insanity, addicted people are clearly a burden to society that can't be reasoned with. In general, people have their circumstances that lead them to do what they do, but addicted people may stay addicted even if their circumstances are somehow resolved. Addiction is a costly affair to individuals, their friends and families, and the state. We should try to rehabilitate addicted people and we should try to tackle the root causes (much easier spoken than done), but it's a lousy situation in the first place.

But it’s not "happening anyway", most people take drugs just fine without getting addicted. It’s when you are in a lousy situation and you take them regularly as an escape that you have a problem.

Most people may be fine, but considering that the CDC reported nearly 92,000 drug overdose deaths in 2020[0], I think there is a problem. Granted, it's a low percentage of the population, but that feels like the whole reducing people to statistics. The number seems to be growing, and anyways, you don't need to be on the immediate path to drug overdose for addiction to be an issue.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db428.htm#secti...

Overdose deaths are mainly caused by opiates, the surge is due to fentanyl. [0] This is also due to other drugs being cut with fentanyl. I'm not saying other drugs are otherwise harmless, far from it, but opiates are particularly sinister and addictive.

Most people know this, but many of those who seek out opiates are in a particularly lousy spot already where they don't care if it will ruin their life.

For other drugs that are used recreationally, the rate of addicts is comparable to that of alcohol users, if not lower.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db428.htm#fig4

I don't exempt alcohol as a drug. At best, drugs are helpful in moderation. Social media, literal drugs, whatever potential object of addiction are trouble. There's enough trouble with society already.

Yes, eliminating the temptation is the first thing to do.

How do you expect someone to stop binge eating if they have the kitchen full of prepackaged foods?

Exactly. That's why I made my kids chain-smoke cigarettes for a month, then told them they couldn't have any more, but kept a pack in the open on the kitchen table.

Gotta teach self-control.

ok, how?

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