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m463

As long as amazon drivers get the same sort of benefits.

I wonder if this will just make amazon's transition from ups -> amazon vehicles faster?

or are amazon workers already paid well?

EDIT: to clarify:

sorry, I thought several steps ahead without connecting the dots.

I think this is a good deal. I like UPS too.

But I worry that UPS makes an enormous amount of its revenue from amazon, and it will make UPS more expensive.

An analogy might be us manufacturing jobs treating their employees right while china is cheaper without worrying about employees. And then all the jobs migrate to china. The answer would be - china treats employees right.

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> As long as amazon drivers get the same sort of benefits

How does the fairness of this deal depend on negotiations between Amazon and its drivers?

I think it is reference to the durability of the deal

Have you done anything to help Amazon drivers unionize? What’s stopping you? (Not rhetorical, genuine questions)

(I provide logistical and financial support to the Starbucks workers union, for example: https://sbworkersunited.org/)

I can't imagine that Amazon pays any workers well. (They wash their hands because the delivery folks are independent contractors.)

I would imagine that people drive for an Amazon affiliate for a couple years with the goal of being hired by UPS for the higher pay and better benefits. The result is that Amazon will always have a lower quality of service than UPS. (I am sure HN hates UPS, but every driver I've interacted with has been super friendly, and they can sneak packages into buildings like they're ninjas. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for, and honey attracts more flies than vinegar. https://xkcd.com/357/)

Here in Western NJ, Amazon drivers don’t seem to have any training at all. One took out a statue at the top of our driveway at high speed. They routinely park on dangerous blind curves. They hop out of the drover’s side of their vans right into traffic without looking.

The majority here at least are a menace.

By comparison the UPS folks all seem to be professional drivers as a rule and know what they’re doing.

"One took out a statue at the top of our driveway at high speed."

Maybe he really wanted to get you your package quickly. It's admirable..

Maybe it was an ugly statue.

It was a concrete griffin, about three feet tall. Left wing was sheared off.

If I were someone who owned a house guarded by griffins... I would cast many curses upon a driver of such ilk.

>one took out a statue

Sounds like a typical ups/fedex driver to me. My third mailbox agrees.

> delivery folks are independent contractors

Wait what? FedEx was forced to make all their contractors employees:

    On July 8th, 2015 the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit adopted the decision of the Kansas Supreme Court in Carlene.M. Craig, et al v. FedEx Ground Package Sys., Inc. This decision holds that FedEx Ground drivers are employees and not independent contractors under the Kansas Wage Payment Act (KWPA). The Seventh Circuit now joins the Ninth Circuit in ruling against FedEx Ground on this issue,. In August 2014, the Ninth Circuit made the same finding in two cases against FedEx under California and Oregon law.

How is Amazon exempt?

I thought Amazon outsourced their delivery to entire companies, and then it's up to that company to obey local labor laws and all that. Could be wrong. There's a lot of Amazon branding all over everything, so maybe it's theirs.

That's exactly how FedEx worked -- the "contractors" were usually small companies of 5-10 delivery trucks and a little more employees. FedEx just provided them access to tracking scanners, training etc.

Didn't persuade the court.

Eh, Amazon pays their workers pretty well, if you only base "well" on "dollar amount per hour relative to other unskilled labor jobs". Their conditions are terrible, but the money is far from bad.

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