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Comment by tptacek | Hacker News Reader

This seems like a sideshow, given:

The body-cam video also shows that one of the detectives was able to see inside the car without the assistance of an iPhone by cupping his hands around his eyes and looking through the windshield.

The police were also there serving an arrest warrant on the owner of the car, so keep in mind they had broad discretion to search incident to the arrest --- as the record here shows, the police originally attempted to open the car.

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Definitely a sideshow. But this is still important case law. The police can use a commonly available technology (iPhone) to observe things through some kind of obfuscated barrier. They've been allowed to do this with a flashlight (darkness) and now they're allowed to do it with iPhones (tinted windows).

Seems perfectly fine to me.

This particular obfuscated barrier is already disfavored by the law; for instance, where I live, window tints sufficient to block inspection of the passenger compartment of the car by an officer standing next to the car are already effectively illegal.

One of LAPD’s favorite laws to break:

- https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/14188561439889285...

- https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/14189266261218631...

- https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/14189750226480701...

- https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/14189794242891079...

- https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/14189834307553402...

- https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/14189874329057894...

- https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/14190012982386565...

- https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/14208918269369753...

- https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/15526546011400724...

- https://twitter.com/FilmThePoliceLA/status/15526592804147077...

I'm actually fine with this. Tinted windows in police cars help to protect the identity of a person (while in transit, at least) who has not yet been tried and found guilty of anything.

The videos appear to be those of cops pulling out of a parking lot with their personal vehicles after their shifts are over.

They're just a few of a much larger set of examples of those in US police departments showing little regard for the very laws they are supposed to enforce, though I admit window tints and front license plates seem rather tame to me.

However, it would be of no surprise to me should someone who themselves received an expensive ticket or tickets for it made it their mission in life to document off-duty cops' violations of the same.

Are you sure it is not an undercover car? Tinted windows are allowed for them.

https://www.windowfilmmag.com/2012/08/california-assembly-pa...

Unmarked police cars are still otherwise pretty standard police cars, based on a handful of models. These are very clearly a full range of normal consumer cars. Undercover cars are a completely different thing and would be nowhere near a police station in the first place.

My bad, I'd only briefly looked and assumed they were unmarked cars for on duty cops.

I don't think the model 3 is used for prisoner transportation

That's why arrest records are kept secret and not posted on the internet along with mug shots. /s

(Not to imply that I'm a fan of either.)

These are personal vehicles.

It obfuscates the identity of the officers against harassment and retribution for on-duty activity. Same reason narcos wear ski masks.

Also fascists, terrorists, executioners, etc....

>window tints sufficient to block inspection of the passenger compartment of the car by an officer standing next to the car are already effectively illegal

Which is absolutely preposterous, given how hot it is getting. Window tint laws need to be repealed.

Is heat the reason you want to repeal these laws or do you have others?

I’m on the opposite side of the issue. I think that tinted windows don’t allow for enough visibility for pedestrians and cyclists. This is anecdotal but they also seem to be used in higher portions of the population breaking driving laws. And lastly, I really don’t enjoy the militant “badassness” associated with these. I want the roads to be more chill, not people going around thinking they’re God’s gift to mankind and any who dares cross them will be punished.

These are mostly opinions based on anecdotes. I’ve lived in a few cities now and this remains true. Which is why I’d like to hear your experience.

Where do you live?

It's currently 112 F where I am and there isn't a cloud in the sky. Humidity is very low so water isn't absorbing radiation.

Nobody is riding a bicycle or walking long distances six months of the year here, except for the unhoused, and they can only move at night. Cars are mandatory to participate in the economy.

A car with un-tinted windows is impractical for two reasons: solar heat and UV.

The A/C can be running full blast and my legs will still get hot. Normal side window glass doesn't block UV well so I can get a sunburn with my windows closed.

I have to equip my windows with dark tints. It's like a Canadian putting on snow tires except I can't change it out with the seasons.

So my state doesn't have laws against tints because it can't. Ok, so I drive to another state in my car... now I'm breaking the law.

You can say "human beings shouldn't live in such a place" but first, about 114 million Americans live in similar conditions, and second, these conditions are moving north.

Protecting the occupants of a car against solar radiation is a reasonable thing to do.

That is interesting. The high desert is my current location so it's "only" 105 but with the same low humidity. I find that a sunshade massively reduced any issues that I had with the idleness of the vehicle. But I'll give you that the heat is horrible.

I suppose my rebuttal is: how many months do you feel like tint is necessary? I grew up with routinely high temps (100+, in an area with high humidity). In college our first few weeks were normally 100+, and we did walk to class. I normally would come back with swamp ass and a back covered in sweat. People absolutely can live in these conditions. I just don't think we can remove the human element of it. It's hot, we are going to sweat. It feels like we are trying to control an element of human nature that cannot be controlled.

Edit: I appreciate the reply. Apologies if I sound snarky (as another commenter apparently thinks). It's truly just that the only people I know with tinted windows have been controlling and manipulative. The experiences I get on the road do not help my anecdotal stereotypes.

I don't think you sound snarky. I think it's easy to look at an issue like this through a cultural lens. Heavy tint is indeed popular among jerks.

As for necessity, studies suggest that skin cancer rates vary according to the side of the road a country drives on. [1] So even if you're tolerating the radiation it's still hurting you.

It's also important to remember that paneled vans are legal. They are taller than any car and the visibility through them is 0% because there are no side windows. Frequently the back window is covered or blocked by equipment.

You pretty much have to assume you can't accurately see through any vehicle. Seeing the driver's eyes can be useful, but it can be misleading... I've been hit on roller blades by a driver who'd stopped and was looking right at me but didn't process I was there.

I think every car on the road has to be treated like a panel van. Big opaque block that can kill you and will act unpredictably.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3117975/

Wow that is a lot of F. It's 95 (105 real feel with humidity) here in tropics but people and bicyclists are out. I don't drive but not having issues you describe sitting in a nontinted air conditioned bus

> You can say "human beings shouldn't live in such a place" but first, about 114 million Americans live in similar conditions, and second, these conditions are moving north.

> It's currently 112 F where I am and there isn't a cloud in the sky. Humidity is very low so water isn't absorbing radiation.

114 million Americans live in conditions where it is regularly 112 in the summer?

No. It doesn't always hit 112 F. Temperature is a function of sensible and latent heat.

So Dallas, for example, is only 84 F with a humidity of 83% right now at 9:23 AM central. That's a heat index of 95 F. The high temperature will be 100 F but the high of the heat index will be 110 F.

Corpus Christi recently hit a heat index of 125 F.

It all works out the same. It's brutally hot for months somewhere in every Southern state (including California). These states should all allow tint and account for 114 million people.

Thing is, you can block both IR and UV light, without impinging on the visible light spectrum.

The UV light will cause things inside your car to break down faster, and of course the IR is what carries the heat.

So, you don't need dark tint to block IR. You just need a different filter material.

Visibly transparent effective IR blockers are quite expensive due to the optics involved.

Thing is, the dark tint isn't that great at blocking IR. It's blocking more visible light than IR.

So, yeah -- the stuff that actually blocks IR is more expensive. But if you really want to block IR, then that's what you should be getting.

Otherwise, if you're getting the dark tint, then you should be honest with yourself about what it is that you're primarily blocking.

Modern automobile window tints do a very job of keeping heat out without impacting visibility. Where I live, temperatures cross 45C every summer. Heavily tinted car windows are banned and we manage just fine.

Tinted windows mean it’s impossible for a pedestrian or other motorist to make eye contact with the driver—which is often a way that people communicate to ensure safe crossing.

I prefer when I can know where a driver is looking if I'm about to cross their path. Do they see me? Sometimes that's really hard with tinted windows.

I'm not the person you need to convince about that.

In many countries, tinted windows act as a deterrent against would-be car thieves or armed robbery during a traffic light

Tinted windows prevent cyclists, pedestrians and other drivers from seeing drivers clearly. If you can’t see the driver, then you can’t know if the driver can see you. Very important for driveways and intersections.

If the window tint can be "peered through" by an iPhone (commonly available technology), is it still illegel? This court said no, it's not.

The statute is written in terms of visible light transmittance, so this ruling isn't going to help people with dark tinted windows.

Honestly the real sideshow is that Apple managed to worm its brand into this business. If I were Samsung or Google or any other Android vendor I'd be asking my marketing leadership why the police are not using our phones for this

> cupping his hands around his eyes and looking through the windshield.

That's definitely how I want to approach a car of an individual with a warrant for their arrest.

According to the document:

> They saw Poller get out of the car and enter one of the apartments. A team of officers then went inside to arrest him on a pending arrest warrant. Soon a group of detectives went to examine the car.

So they knew he wasn’t in the car, though in theory someone else could have been.

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