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Comment by lofaszvanitt | Hacker News Reader

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I am one of the developers of the original game and I would not want to play it in 2023.

Brief followup to replies: we were all figuring it out as we went along. When you're doing something for the first time, it tends not to be optimal. People here have noted the janky controls in particular. Even for things where we did iterate a lot and were happy with our solution, it was a solution in a 1994 context, where games were punishing and it was sort of a point of honor to not cut players a break. Game design has advanced a lot in the last thirty years. I'm proud of the the part we played in that evolution... but a lot of it happened after 1994.

I have not played the remake so I don't have any comments on it.

Man, this is why I love HN.

Come on dfan, you can't leave us hanging like that. Why would you not want to play it in 2023? We want specifics!

Not parent, but because the control scheme was terrible ? It's a game that was made when advanced on the edge control system like mouse look were not really invented yet for FPS, and its "cyberworld" was horrible. I once got blocked inside a tetris game played in my in-game implant and couldn't figure out how to get back to the main ui, it was way too advanced in ideas for the controls it had. Also the graphics are really showing their age, frankly.

The original is on gog, including an "enhanced" version that improve it vastly, and I love this game with a passion, have been since its release, but it's a horrible game to manipulate in 2023. Given this remake is faithful to the core ideas of the game, and most reviews says so, it's a no brainer which one you should play.

I really wanted to like System Shock but the controls made it unplayable pretty much.

A pity as it was not long at all until “mouse look” was developed by other games, an innovation which would have solved much of System Shocks control problems.

They invented or perfected so many things that were way ahead of their time, from the free world navigation, to the fully configurable difficulty level, to all the world interactions and the implants and ... But alas controls was not in that list, and like you said that game came just a wee bit too early to avoid the pre-quake era control trainwreck of FPS trying to be more complicated than Doom.

Loved it, absolutely unique and infinitely fun, but damn did it need a remake for that alone.

What's your take on the remake? Did they make a good job, have any reservations? Anything missing maybe?

That‘s so cool! Must have been wild to work at Looking Glass – you guys were so innovative!

You should fire it up sometime just to see how quickly the game loads now.

I played the original on my 486dx2 50mhz back in the day and IMHO the remake is extremely faithful and much more enjoyable. The keyboard controls of the original are not great--it was well before people figured out good 3d game controls with mouse and wasd keys. The original is slow and plodding like you're piloting a battlemech. The remake is much easier and more natural to control.

Nah, this is one case where nostalgia is not productive or true. The original System Shock looked like ass— and I don't just mean the quality of the graphics, I mean all the useless junk that you can't get rid of in the interface— and the control scheme was insane, as you'd expect from that early period where game designers were still figuring out how FPS controls worked.

Play the remake: it is faithful except where it fixes decisions in the original that were genuinely bad.

For me it perpetuated all of the horrible design decisions that I hated in the original.

At least I finished this one, but it was a slog and most sections of the game were not enjoyable for me.

For me, System Shock was always a game with great ideas and great character but horrendous execution. Even back then the people touting the game always seemed like they were talking more about the atmosphere of the game than its actual gameplay.

In that same year, we were playing Doom II, TIE Fighter, Warcraft, X-COM and Master of Magic. I left out Arena because like System Shock, it was also super jank, especially on release.

System Shock was a niche game that most gamers only discovered years later.

That pixelated graphics fueled your fantasy. Btw there is an enhanced edition with 1024x graphics...

Why? From what I understand, it's an extremely faithful remake with just better graphics and slightly better UX.

You haven't played the original, I'm sure of it.

I have, this remake is better. The mouse controls aren't completely insane and the graphics are 100x better...

You have a fond memory of something, and then someone does a REMAKE. A classic or perfect thing doesn't need a remake, because almost all the time the shiny version will be subpar. Just look at classic movies from the 30s or 60s. Almost all the time the remakes are laughingstock like attempts at recreating the original.

Just leave the originals alone. If you don't have the nerves for playing a very old game in an emulator and doesn't enjoy it because the visuals are not appealing, then just play something else. Or name your project XYZ and then tell in interviews that you asked for permission to copy everything and now call it project XYZ.

The trajectory will be:

- look we have created system shock remake

- look this is our new game, you know us, we made the system shock remake...

It's like raise dead+necrophilia that results in some new abomination later on :D.

> Just leave the originals alone.

They did. It still exists for you. They haven't Ruined Your Childhood™.

Get a grip.

They didn't ruin it. They made something that resembles System Shock and it is called System Shock, but it's not System Shock anymore.

All I say is play the original (there is the enhanced version), then play this one, then talk about it.

System Shock 2 is better than the original.

They are both masterpieces.

This is more like taking a classic film that was only available on badly degraded film stock that was rarely available to watch, and fully remastering and restoring it for release on DVD and blu-ray. The story and all of the director's decisions and visions are intact it's just cleaned up and much easier to watch today and forever into the future.

That's called the System Shock Enhanced Edition released in 2015. This resembles the original, but a lot of stuff is remade.

Within a few months there will be diehard fans of the classic who will create a mod of the remake that takes out the changes from the original. It's inevitable. That's the beauty of the mod scene, at least for games with big enough fanbases. So maybe wait for that eventuality to happen instead of complaining about a perfectly good modern new game that has the potential to serve as a base for fan projects such as that.

Only time will tell. May the almighty's blessings guide them in their way.

why do you post like that

Black Mesa is a remake of one of the best games ever and they absolutely nailed it.

Is it really that good?

It’s fantastic. It’s amazing. I truly can’t recommend it enough. They absolutely nailed the job.

Why? In what way is it better than through your personal nostalgia?

You also haven't played the original.

Why are you not engaging and answering questions about why you think it's better?

Instead you just shutdown conversation.

I have played both, the remake is better. You've obviously never played this remake.

I have my reasons... no offense.

Yes offense. You keep posting shitty one liners making assumptions (truly putting the ass in assumption, in fact) about the people you are replying to, and then when asked about your own, you write some comically adolescent "I have my reasons... turns around mysteriously with cape floating in the wind" bullshit.

So take your head out of your fucking ass and be specific. Oh, and yes, I, posting from my eponymous account, have indeed played and finished the original System Shock.

The original is worth playing. It does not mean that a remake is not worth playing!

(If you have the time, of course.)

Yes! Well, not exactly: play the Enhanced Edition [0], which modernizes only the mouselook, keyboard controls, and compatibility, but leaves all other aspects unchanged.

Frankly, there's even value in the actual original version, in that the alien control scheme really makes one feel as though one's piloting some sort of unwieldy vehicle. It's ludonarratively consonant with the hacker-main-character struggling with the military-grade neural hardware he received in exchange for jailbreaking SHODAN, and kicking off the story.

The remake version does away with a bunch of weapons, and rejiggers inventory to be in the style of System Shock 2 which utilized a grid, a la Diablo or any number of others These are minor changes, but they really repulse me. The original could easily deal out "unbalanced" or unusual encounters because of the incredible variety and amount of inventory cruft one would collect -- grenades, drugs, all the different ammo types.

[0] https://www.gog.com/en/game/system_shock_enhanced_edition

Bingo.

I've upvoted you solely to increase visibility for the developer you provoked (and who made you look like an asshat). In the future, either post better, or somehow try to post another legendarily shitty thread to provoke more ancient devs.

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