Comment by steveBK123 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by steveBK123 | Hacker News Reader

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Tesla is the only one making their own hardware for DCFC.

The other US networks are at the whim of both 3rd party hardware suppliers & 3rd party software vendors. So they are just integrators really, and do a very terrible job of it. They are slow to get new parts, slow to send out repair teams, etc.

Further a lot of them have screwed up incentives, such that the person charging is not really their end customer. Also they all lose money.

Some of this is the result of legal settlement mandated networks (EA) or them pre-selling some amount of charging to automakers (EA) or partnering with states (evGo) or running an ad network (Volta)..

All of which means you, the person charging, are not the customer. Whether you can successfully charge or not is besides the point, and possibly increases their losses if you do charge!

Yes I know Tesla also receives government money, but it is just one part of the funding, and they are actually performing well as a charging network, because they want to sell more cars. They must make enough money off it that they are willing to open it up to 3rd parties now.

I've had a good experience with EA tech support getting chargers rebooted quickly without a fuss, but my experience is universally that the networks don't have any proper telemetry to deal with or even be aware of issues before some sap shows up needing the charger.

One particular instance that stands out is I pulled up to a Shell Recharge station and found it completely off; checked their own app and it showed as offline; and called their support and informed them so they could open a repair ticket, being unaware of any problem. There's really no excuse for this: Shell had the information that this station was offline, but didn't have any automated action in place.

Yes, but you should never ever have to call. The fact that you've had to call once is a problem. The fact that you've had to call multiple times is a huge problem.

For this reason, I've never recommended a non-Tesla to anyone in US, despite having switched from Tesla myself. CCS network cars feel too much like a hobbyist / enthusiast situation for me still. Like 5 years of hoping they'd get behind the 2G iPhone on iOS 1.0 ...

> Yes, but you should never ever have to call.

That's what the GP was saying with "There's really no excuse for this: Shell had the information that this station was offline, but didn't have any automated action in place."

It's pretty simple why. The reason these chargers exist is to capture government subsidies, not because enough people actually want them for them to be financially viable. Once the vendors get their check from the taxpayers there's literally no reason for them to provide any more than the bare minimum level of support.

> It's pretty simple why. The reason these chargers exist is to capture government subsidies, not because enough people actually want them for them to be financially viable. Once the vendors get their check from the taxpayers there's literally no reason for them to provide any more than the bare minimum level of support.

Completely agreed. Tesla is the only one operating them commercially in practice. They probably are cash flow positive, and even if not, are a loss leader to sell cars.

EV DCFC can be commercially viable though considering 1) the markup on electric is HUGE compared to gas (possibly 2x) and 2) they have a captive customer stuck 5x as long as a gas buyer, to spend $$ in their convenience store (where they actually make all their money)

The problem is the current companies are trying to do standalone stalls in others parking lots. I think we will eventually see some gas station chains bring out an offering, but there needs to be demand first.

Something like 90%+ of EVs on the road in US are still Tesla, so CCS has always been a niche within a niche here.

>not because enough people actually want them for them to be financially viable.

But there are enough people, they are packed.

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