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Comment by goldmab | Hacker News Reader

Why are people so angry? It seems like these guys are mostly just acting silly. I don't think it's particularly interesting or funny or whatever, but that's no reason to be mad at them.

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There has always been a problem in STEM jobs where people try to use social manipulation rather than technical achievement to get ahead. With brogrammer, people are trying to convince employers to exclude certain classes of employees such as women or non-social people. Then it becomes a race to the bottom of who fits the stereotype the best rather than rhe most qualified, and technical people end up taking orders from popped-collar types with no technical skills. This is not a joke, and there is a very real reason people are doing this.

I think you've got it backwards. There is definitely a degree of pride associated with being nerdy and non-social to the exclusion of "brogrammers".

Try getting a technical job as with a popped collar. Even if you are technically very proficient, there is stigma and distrust from people like the author of the article

It's hardly irrational to distrust someone clueless enough to go into a job interview with a popped collar. This isn't really limited to the tech world.

Of course there is distrust, and it is unlikely that hiring based on social behavior is going to make a successful company. I'm merely pointing out that some misguided people are trying to change the business environment to their advantage. I didn't say they are or will be successful. If we describe the status quo, it will be the same as it always been, engineering requires strong, real skills for success. Companies that have unskilled management or people who "bro'd" their way into a high level position are going to have a hard time finding success, but we have to acknowledge there are real companies out there that are taking brogramming seriously.

Didn't you just describe 90% of regular ole management? Ineptitude certainly isn't exclusively to this particular label.

I'd be very sad if that loud minority made it so that non-technical people associate "programmer" with the image of a drunk frat boy. That's not going to happen, of course, but I think people judge that this sort of guys give a bad image of the programmers, as a community.

I don't think that these guys will be what give programmers a bad image. If anything, it's the fact that we're completely unwelcoming to anybody who doesn't fit the nerd stereotype in some way. The only exceptions is our openness to all women, and the article's main point was that he doesn't like these guys because they potentially scare off women. Women aren't all delicate little flowers that cry whenever a "brogrammer" is around. Hell, loads of women like these guys, just like loads of guys like "sexy" women who act cold and distant.

Most of those "drunk frat boys" someday grow up and get jobs somewhere. They're always the rare guy that everybody at their workplace hates, so I don't think anybody will ever legitimately associate programmers with party dudes. If anything, we're all lumped together as smug assholes who love to complain about other men's lifestyles.

I don't really care what someone does in their free time. If they can code well and they don't get in the way of my job, then they're fine. If their idea of a good weekend is going to a party with naked women, then I don't care. Claiming they're sexist is putting women on a pedestal, because some women chose to go to a party to meet such guys, and they're going to go back to their workplace and brag about the hot guys they saw at the party.

I'm not even a "brogrammer" by any means, but I hate how much male programmers go out of their way to claim to be morally superior.

That is always the problem with excluding a certain type of person you lose the ability to claim a higher morale ground.

The tech world is a meritocracy. If 'brogrammers' can live up to the standards then why shouldn't companies hire them? The question is will they make tons of sexist comments at work and make people uncomfortable? You have to hire a few and find out.

Like the article says, it's really off putting to women programmers. I would never consider applying for a job at a company that was proud of its 'brogramming' culture. We don't need more sexist workplaces.

The main issue i have with this brogrammer thing is that it's completely idiotic (and just that would be agood reason to be mad at them). It being off putting for women is of secondary importance, imho. It's also quite sad that they allowed that their names (and of their workplace) were published and linked with this kind of statements, c'mon...

Kids these days...

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