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Comment by kitchi | Hacker News Reader

I had a similar thought. But it also struck me that "externalising the maximalism" by using a library like the unix ssh implementation is probably the best way to go about it, since it's a widely used well tested library that implements a complex use case.

In scientific programming I'd say that's the same as using a library like GSL, BLAS or even numpy. The net impact on LoC in my project is minimal, even though it could potentially be calling thousands of lines of code. The point is that from a maintenance perspective I only need to maintain 5 or 10 lines, and if I find a bug in there I can file a bug report upstream, rather than maintain the complex details of the implementation.

The title is being a bit smart-ass for clicks and the author admits as much right at the top. But beyond that it's pretty great that they implementated a fairly basic version of slack with standard unix tools in a straightforward way.

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> But it also struck me that "externalising the maximalism" by using a library like the unix ssh implementation

Not saying this to be argumentative, only to emphasize the same conflicting dynamic I saw in the post: this is exactly the same rationale that people routinely lambast here about NPM and other sources of dependencies. It’s libraries and frameworks all the way down. I’m cool with that, I’m just not cool with picking and choosing when it’s cool without any particular principle.

It's interesting to think about where such a principle would land.

I think having five lines of code (well, it's more like 50 of so reading the article) with some key and reliable dependencies is better for maintainability than having no dependencies but a substantially larger code base. As you point out, there's definitely limits, and npm's left pad, is odd and is even packages are obvious example where the added dependency is less maintainable than implementing the code directly.

i think one important difference between externalizing complexity to unix tools like ssh, and externalizing complexity to npm libraries, is related to (for lack of a better term) quality control

any dingbat with a terminal can produce an npm library that you can use in your application, the level of quality control is basically zero

but it takes a pretty strong track record to get your software into coreutils, or really any base linux distribution

to put it kind of cynically, i think there is an enormous difference between relying on ssh vs. relying on leftpad, gatekeeping based on competence measured over time is i think actually important and good to do

I think that the main difference is that unix tools are intended to work which each other. Therefore needing less line of code. As opposed on other systems.

That was exactly part of the point I was trying to make with the article. The other, that I left unsaid but should probably add explicitly, is that Slack et al. run on a server with a kernel, but choose to ignore the access control capabilities of said kernel and instead chose to reimplement them. I think it is a shame, and more software should strive to be security agnostic instead of reimplementing access control for the umpteenth time.

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