It really makes me think an electric car future is going to happen. This possibility was dismissed all my life (“what about road trips?) but the demand is there.
Regardless, we don't have battery swap, and I don't think any (serious) manufacturers have plans to go that route, so it's a moot point.
But I'd have never admitted how much more efficient our old ICE car would have been at 50MPH than the usual 85MPH I preferred (it's 3 lanes wide and empty, so it's not unsafe to go slower, I just didn't want to).
When I need a 4x4, I hire. When I go on a weekend away with lots of gear, I get a trailer or larger car. Big family outing, people carrier. Fetch furniture, Uber van. Getting a huge car and using it for shopping or dropping kids off is allowing the rare use case to dictate how you experience the typical use case. Harder to park, fuel, maintain.
Hiring also means I don’t have the “wrong” large car which doesn’t fit the rare holiday where I need more seats or storage.
Long range fuel consumption at 5.3L/100kms, as usual at summer conditions.
Of course, ymmv : - )
The roof rack and Thule box cost maybe $1200 AUD. But the rack was also useful for attaching bicycle carriers.
The larger car is likely more expensive to purchase in the first place than the smaller car plus the roof box.
EVs are perfect if you road trip once or twice a year. If you’re road tripping every weekend then they may not be a good solution for you.
Check out Teslabjorns data ; https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V6ucyFGKWuSQzvI8lMzv...
He does 1000 km range tests on youtube amongst other things.
A road trip is an outlier for me. I go on maybe 1-3/yr. The other 360 days, my driving is local, and with home charging I never worry about filling up.
I was driving to my office job in an F150, burning enough gas to finance and fuel a new Civic, all while being terrible to drive.
So I did the logical thing, and added a vehicle that was efficient and enjoyable to drive, a motorcycle.
But it's agility made me only further resent the truck during the winter months, so I also added a compact luxury sports sedan.
Worst part was the F150 was both "too much" truck to daily drive, but never enough when I needed to do truck stuff.
Tried to landscape my home with some crushed rock, had to do 9 trips bottomed out because of it's paltry payload. Couldn't tow enough to borrow a friend's skid-steer. Had to buy my bricks a half-pallet at a time, a full pallet bottomed it out before the forklift had even finished putting the full weight on.
Downsized the F150 to a Tacoma, anything over 1200lbs and it's more practical to pay for delivery using a proper commercial truck anyways.
In the end I ended up with 3 vehicles, and if I had the means I'd have 4, I'd split the compact luxury sports sedan into a small sports car and a full sized luxury sedan for long highway travels. And this is all before even adding an EV.
tldr: In the motorcycle community they say the correct number of bikes is always 1 more than what you have. I strongly feel that applies to cars/trucks too.
True mass adoption is already here. Not to say that I don't agree that range needs to increase (although it's incredibly rare I'd want to drive more than 250 miles without a 15 minute break). But I don't think the transition to electric will stop or slow or is really in any danger.
Since I don't commute to work, and usually take transit or walk for local trips, the bulk of my driving is longer trips. Range anxiety would kill me in an EV.
I do think there are some cases where it makes sense to at least choose the features of a car with some minority-trips in mind. For example, I drive to a snowy, mountainous region 2-3 times a year. I decided to buy an AWD car (sedan, as I dislike driving larger vehicles like SUVs). With the trips I've made since then, the added cost between the AWD and non-AWD versions of my car has already been covered by the savings in not having to rent a vehicle with AWD.
Tangential, but I was also offered an EV when I rented a car last week (after flying across the country), but I had no idea what the charging situation would be at my destination, so I turned it down and got an ICE car. Turned out to be the right call, as there were no charging facilities where I was going.
this is a problem with you and your wife's relationship, not the EV.
That's on the EV, not their relationship.
I think the idea of not taking an EV because in some edge case one might lose a few minutes (30m for charging most vehicles nowadays) extremely superficial and selfish in view of the huge disaster that is the climate crisis. Think about how your kids and grandkids will read such comments in 50 years.
This is of course a crude approximation but just drive slower if you have range anxiety.
Also did NYC -> Montreal in a Tesla and the charging situation was much more frustrating than I had expected.
Sure, there's a breaking point where gas prices go up crazy high, and there are the environmental concerns, but I don't think it's surprising or even unreasonable that part of the EV push back is "have to relearn how to plan trips".
One other thing that bothers me about this is that the range of a gas car is somewhat independent of weather conditions. An EV losing a chunk of its range (completely messing up your route planning) because it was colder outside than expected... well, that's just not acceptable.
Critical mass generally provides the scale to solve these problems.
Bingo. You don't have to agree with me but in my opinion anyone who needs a car and can afford an EV but not driving one is morally reprehensible. We needed to reduce our fossil fuel usage twenty years ago. People putting their own convenience above the environment are selfish and short-sighted.
I drove from Montréal to New York City in a gasoline powered car late at night, and in the 150+ miles between Plattsburgh and Albany I got range anxiety because I was getting low on gas and couldn't find any gas stations open. Of course this was in the days before smartphones and Google Maps and Gasbuddy etc.
It's also true that running out of gas doesn't require a tow. You just need roadside assistance to bring 5-10 gallons to get you back on the road in minutes.
I find the idea of the portable power fascinating and have watched some YouTube videos on them, but it seems like a very expensive and niche thing so far. I've seen one company on YouTube that showed it off.
I wanted an EV since back when I lived in an apartment, wished there was some sort of big capacitor on wheels I could charge all day from a normal outlet that would then fast charge my car for a few minutes.
Most actual products seem to use batteries and cost thousands, and are for some unique scenario where you somehow can't just public charge. Still find them neat though.
I think they typically just tow you to a charging station, seems a lot easier/faster/cheaper given they already own tow trucks.
In my opinion the only cost effective battery to travel around with would be the one inside an existing EV, I just hope we get beyond household outlet speeds for V2L. Would be neat if a passing EV could rescue at 50kw or something fast.
Sure, you've effectively halved your normal-case range, but a refill of an ICE car is much less of a hit to your trip time than a recharge of an EV, and your best-case range (if you really need it) still remains the same.
When driving long distances on an EV, I think using ABRP is a must, to have an idea of all alternative routes.
I recently drove to a campground in Yellowstone from LA (about 1000 miles) in an ICE SUV in less than 15 hours, including multiple rest/food breaks and traffic delays in the park due to road work. We didn't plan any stops on the way, and only got gas when we stopped for restroom breaks.
Right now, driving an EV means giving up a significant amount of freedom and turns what should be a pleasant road trip into a stress-inducing chore...and that doesn't even take into account the lack of charging options at home for those of us who don't live in single-family dwellings.
Sorry, your co-worker is likely lying... that would mean something like 14 hours of charging per 9 hours of driving which is very far from reality. Easy way to check: https://abetterrouteplanner.com
Assuming infinite fuel/charge, LA to SLC is 9 hours of driving with good traffic, in temperate weather.
In the winter, temperatures along the way can approach or drop below freezing; in the summer most of the drive is 100+ degree temperatures. In both cases, the temperature drastically lowers range before taking AC/heating into account. This has little to no effect on ICE vehicles (except at the start of the drive when the engine is warming up) but has huge effects on EV vehicles; cold can reduce EV range by as much as 40% and the heat reduces range by about 15%. This means that a Model 3's theoretical range would only be about 200-280 miles. This means the car has to be charged at least twice for the trip to Vegas, and 2-3 times for the trip from Vegas to SLC. It turns out the charging situation is great from LA to Vegas (Barstow, Baker, and Primm) but almost non-existent past Vegas (essentially nothing past Vegas until you reach St George, hence the need to plan stops.
If you're lucky and the Supercharger is available when you need it, great.. Not so great when all the spots are taken, and you're either waiting in the cold/heat or relying on the EA station a few miles down having working charging. Unfortunately, EA stations along this route generally don't have supercharging speeds...
While in Yellowstone I encountered a handful of Teslas from Angelenos who said that it took them the better part of 2 days to get there (but otherwise weren't specific about the time, route, charging situation, etc), so it's not an isolated incident.
Long story short: just because you're a techie and can optimize your EV driving doesn't mean everyone else will. Your experience is the exception, not the norm.
> It turns out the charging situation is great from LA to Vegas (Barstow, Baker, and Primm) but almost non-existent past Vegas (essentially nothing past Vegas until you reach St George...
Both Tesla and EA have chargers 80 miles from Vegas in Mesquite? And something like 14 locations combined between Vegas and SLC?
> ...relying on the EA station a few miles down having working charging. Unfortunately, EA stations along this route generally don't have supercharging speeds...
Every EA station between Vegas and SLC has >= 1 charger at 350 kW, I don't understand what you are saying. Regardless, the charging curve for a Model 3 spends a lot of time <= 150 kW so it doesn't make a ton of difference.
> Long story short: just because you're a techie and can optimize your EV driving doesn't mean everyone else will. Your experience is the exception, not the norm.
This makes sense in parts of the country where fast charging is scarce. The route between LA and SLC is full of chargers, both Tesla and CCS. Tesla handles the routing for you, there is nothing to optimize on this route.
They do...now...They did not several months ago when my coworker attempted this drive. At least, none that were working or available.
Every EA station between Vegas and SLC has >= 1 charger at 350 kW
Yes, they do. And they have on average of 0 working chargers at 350 kW, so the theoretical charging speeds are irrelevant.
Tesla handles the routing for you, there is nothing to optimize on this route.
Ah yes, Tesla does such a good job at routing. Just like how it loves to route cars into trucks and stopped vehicles. Just because your experience with your empty Tesla works for you doesn't mean it works for families with greater charging needs.
The Mesquite EA location has photos on Plugshare dating back to 2019 and the Tesla locations opened in 2021 and 2022. You can check https://supercharge.info for opening dates of the superchargers along the route. EA built that interstate out quite a while ago.
> Just because your experience with your empty Tesla works for you doesn't mean it works for families with greater charging needs.
I don't drive a Tesla but I also don't understand what this means. The route has superchargers and EA chargers all over, damn near perfectly spaced out, and the navigation system includes them in routing. If your coworker took 24 hours on this route, it was not caused by driving an electric vehicle. Again, you can use ABRP, modify the variables, and check for yourself: it is not possible to get anywhere near that amount of charging time on that route regardless of conditions.
....how?
HOW!?
I drive a Model 3. I recently drove from Portland, OR to Santa Clara and back 665 miles each way. Each way only took ~12 1/2 hours.
I'm sorry, but either your co-worker is lying, or they're bad at driving, or there's more to the story. Did they think they need to charge to 100% at each charging stop or something?
You might want to consider that not everybody is driving themselves; some people have families with them and that changes the calculus of how you approach the drive.
Road trips are a problem, but charging infrastructure will eventually handle it. During the cross over period you could rent an ICE car.
I don't think 1 road trip a year is enough to sway most people off the idea of an EV if they want one. It's only going to sway those who are already skeptical.
They really need to work on charging infrastructure before they convince me to buy an electric car.
And the cost still needs to come way, way down. It seems like every electric car that has any decent range is a luxury car. I don't want a luxury car, I just want a super basic cheap car to get me from point a to point b.
Having to drive five to ten miles and wait for most of an hour to charge is just a bad experience.
The trick is to distribute chargers everywhere, because your car is going to be parked somewhere long enough to charge unless you’re a taxi or some other high utilization use case. Most will charge at home and or work, but some cannot.
My office and home don't have chargers and probably won't for a while, so I'd essentially have to make a special trip out on the weekends to charge my car while I get lunch nearby or something.
If I had to drive around for a while to find an open charging spot, I'd have to be more opportunistic about where/when I charge to stay ahead on it.
China this year reached $10k car with BYD introducing its $10k cars with sodium ion batteries, these are not like previous cheap cars which were practically golf carts. With the prices of batteries and solar electricity falling 10%-12% a year on avg I think electric cars are going to take over a lot faster than people are expecting. Main reason being cost ice cars are almost 3 times as expensive to run today as an electric car already. It will be 5-8 times in 5-8 years.
Hardest part is for apartment buildings. No big incentive to install chargers for public use.
Same thing for at work.
And checking the charging maps shows very few options anywhere near me and the few places that do only have a couple plugs. Would be annoying to find it's in use by the time I get there so I would have to wait for them and then me.
Sure maybe in years it will be common enough, but that’s my entire point. It doesn’t seem common at all around me yet, and I’m not going to buy an EV before charging is reasonably available.
Hence why I think it will expand outward from urban centres, motivated by e.g. ULEZ requirements.
I live in Wisconsin between Madison and Milwaukee.
There are perhaps 20 chargers in total in the entire suburb. Maybe 8 of them are fast chargers. There are another 20 in neighbouring suburbs.
And no, it's not an American suburb with single family homes. It's an European suburb with apartment complexes.
You can't even get a quality EV with a shorter range though for less than 50-70k. I'm not even sure I've spent that much on my car over the last decade, including gas, insurance, repairs, and initial cost. Makes it hard to justify the upgrade.
Seems like there may be 500evs coming back next year, so may look into that.
Bolt EUV is around 30k
One reason it's shame we'll never see the Bolt on Australian roads is because it actually stemmed from an electric vehicle concept designed here by GM’s Australian design centre and went into production in 2017.
Now, of course, with GM all-but out of Australia – apart from its ties to the shrunken GMSV outfit here – it's less likely than ever we'll ever see the Bolt models here.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1139848_sub-40-000-evs-...
Around me there were very few places until McDonald's suddenly decided to have a charger at every drive-thru, and now I have as many chargers as McDonalds' around me.
- the price is easily 1.5x compared to an equivalent ICE car
- shorter driving ranges
- nearly non-existent charging infrastructure
Toxicity and pollution of producing the battery is an immediate one. And the fact it's junk in 5-6 years, obsoleting often the entire car (or requiring an extremely expensive replacement).
The fact BEV are much heavier and are wearing down the roads much faster.
And while ICE are of higher risk of a fire, an ICE fire seems like child's play compared to a BEV fire. This thing is impossible to put out and turns everything around to fine (and very toxic) dust (including, again, the road below).
You won't consume fuel while at a dead stop in the traffic jams. You'll have peak efficiency when moving at low speeds in the traffic jams. You'll already be charged up at home, while everyone else will be waiting in line at gas stations to fill up. Some people won't even be able to get gas, because the stations will run out in the rush.
Vehicles travel for hundreds of miles in the event of a major storm. Some places may be up to 6 weeks without power upon returning. So you drive your battery powered car back home, and now it's dead, and you have no way to recharge it. Guess what you're going to be relying on to get basic essentials given that FEMA vehicles are NOT coming to you to deliver food? Someone else's ICE.
So when it's 100 degrees and 90 percent humidity outside and your neighbors with the ICE vehicles have gone to the gas stations for refills to both their vehicles AND their generators so that they can run a portable AC unit, you're utterly out of luck with your electric paperweight. I suppose you have a shot if you still have working solar panels, but in the situations I mentioned... LOL. Even if the winds don't shred them, the debris will.
This would not be possible on ICE vehicles, IMHO.
It gives us a choice/warning right? Because sometimes I'll stop charging so it doesn't trip the breaker as I run something else.
EVs should be more efficient when driving at low speed than an ICE car, and the regenerative braking in stop-and-go traffic will help reclaim some wasted energy.
EV's don't expend power running the motor when stopped in traffic. Most ICE cars out there do not auto shut off their engines when idling (it's fairly recent that many newer cars have that feature), and even those that do need to turn the engine back on after a few minutes in order to run the car's electronics.
For the people who can charge at home (admittedly, there are many who cannot), their cars will likely already be fully charged when the evacuation order comes down. And we already know what happens with ICE cars when there's excessive demand for fuel: hours-long waits at the pump, and gas stations that run out entirely.