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Comment by gmerc | Hacker News Reader

Jesus Christ. What we are seeing is decade long failure to integrate the children of people who were integral to building the french economy.

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They haven't integrated and they never will. There were leaks showing Amazon's union busting efforts for Whole Foods - the more diverse a city, the less likely locations there were to unionize.

Is that your best piece of evidence?

Common sense, everyone knows it except the white liberal middle class. Why do prison populations group themselves by race and not class?

Common sense was that Germans, Italians, Irish, etc. could never integrate into America.

Common sense was that Ocitanians and Bretons could never integrate into France.

Common sense was that hundreds of independent principalities with mutually unintelligible languages could never integrate into Germany and Italy.

Common sense was that Samnium and Lucanium could never integrate into Rome.

Except all of them did and those countries were stronger for it.

Because class distinctions aren't meaningful when everyone around you is incarcerated?

I want to believe that in fancy rich people prisons there are gangs formed across university’s attended

But racial distinctions are. So they're relevant in every case, whereas class distinctions are not.

Because approximately everyone in prison is lower class, almost by definition?

If a group of individuals migrates to another country, the onus is on that group to integrate into their host country, not the other way around.

> the onus is on that group to integrate into their host country,

That's the belief. The reality is that the onus is not accepted and largely does not resolve for a couple generations. In the short term, the effect is obvious. Pure disruption from an economical and cultural perspective. A melting pot of the worst and best of both worlds. The worst effects necessarily dwarfing the short term benefits.

However, in the long term, a melting pot/diversity is believed to always be a net benefit. I'm not sure why the belief persists, other than convenience (can't really unmix populations after generations) and confirmation bias. Economies improve over time or nation economic models disappear, making it moot. I believe how a nation specifically deals with immigration has influenced the outcomes a great deal, for the better. Not dealing with immigration as a serious, ongoing concern, is a crap shoot.

they've been in France a few decades, France is a more than a thousand years old, how can they have been integral to building to French economy ? were they here during the industrial revolution ? the "30 glorieuses" ? no.

The saddest thing is people can only think about this topic in economic terms. People mock the "line must go up" thinking in capitalism, yet become enraged when you question this thinking with regards to migrants and the economy. That long term the economic benefits are marginal to non-existent is almost irrelevant.

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