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Comment by endisneigh | Hacker News Reader

It’s not the same thing but you can currently buy novamin and nano hydroxyapatite based pastes which help to remineralize enamel (they do not regrown teeth completely).

On the note of dental hygiene I recommend, in addition to the standard stuff:

1. Rising your mouth with water immediately after eating. If you’re at a restaurant just drink some water, swish rigorously for 15 seconds and swallow.

2. Flossing regularly soon after eating. Couple with a water flosser if possible.

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Have you seen your enamel improve using those? I've used a Sensodyne one for a year with zero results and switched back. My dentist seemed unsurprised by those results, so the effect is probably miniscule in general if there's any at all.

Unless you bought the foreign one you didn’t get novamin. Try again with David’s with uses nano hydroxyapatite and can be bought in the USA

Well I'm in Europe, so I'm not sure if I can buy the same ones. It had novamin listed on the packaging ingredients so unless they're blatantly lying, it had it.

Heh, touché. The European one should have novamin. The effect isn’t supposed to be drastic. In fact I stopped using novamin as well because the studies I read didn’t show substantial difference vs fluoride toothpaste. I assume your dentist didn’t notice much? I’d still give nano hydroxyapatite a try.

They've worked for me several times over the years when I had sensitivity issues. Takes a month or so to notice and you should be careful not to drink water for a while after you use them.

You’re not supposed to drink water or use mouth wash for a while after using fluoride toothpaste either.

Yes. Sensodyne is worthless in my experience, but brushing with a toothpaste I bought in Japan to restore enamel really worked. It had very immediate effects and my teeth kept the protective enamel even after I ran out.

Could you provide more information, like a brand name?

“APAGARD Premio” is what it says on the tube. Hydroxyapatite.

Thanks!

Fyi apagard premio has a 5-6% concentration, you ideally want 10%. That's what's been shown to be most effective in clinical trials, Apagard Royal has 10% but you can find similar concentrations cheaper from other brands.

Apagard renamel is the variation with the highest concentration but also the highest price tag.

https://www.oralcare.co.jp/faq/cat2/ (page is in Japanese)

Yep that'll happen depending where you live.

Sensodyne has a bioglass (sometimes called hydroxyapatite, NOVAMIN, or Biomin) which is what you are describing however it's excluded from the Sensodyne sold in the US. The reason why is a long story [1] but if you want "good" Sensodyne you have to import it from literally anywhere else or buy a no-flouride biomin version (made by Dr. Collins who decided to go through the FDA process) in the US. Both are luckily pretty easy to get on Amazon however there's a bit of a markup.

1. https://medium.com/@ravenstine/the-curious-history-of-novami...

For me, this kind of toothpaste was much worse for sensitivity than a high-fluoride toothpaste you can get prescribed by your dentist. (It's a prescription, but it's inexpensive.)

The bioglass toothpastes (i.e. the ones that contain NOVAMIN or Biomin) are doing something different than high-flouride toothpastes.

The biolgass ones aren't really "restoring enamel" but they "refill" (remineralise) the enamel with all the minerals that slowly leach out before the enamel actually wears away.

The flouride toothpastes act by hardening the structures those other minerals make up which increases the resistance of your teeth.

They both do different things but they work well together. In the US you won't find them both in the same toothpaste (only Biomin C/without flouride is FDA approved) but outside the US you can find Sensodyne with NOVAMIN and flouride as well as Biomin F (with flouride).

So depending where you live, you might want to give them another shot but making sure you use both bioglass and flouride (I personally do a dot on my toothbrush of both Dr. Collins Biomin Restore and Colgate PreviDent 1.1% NaF 5% KNO3). At least for me it has worked a lot better than just doing one or the other.

Ah, just mix 'em on the brush? Good idea. I will try that.

I have thought about this in regards to combining stannous fluoride with hydroxapatite due to the synergy between fluoride and hydroxyapatite (Although I believe most studies which have found this synergy used sodium fluoride, not the traditionally superior stannous fluoride, so not sure if the synergy will uphold). I think there are only a few toothpastes on the market with a proper concentration of both sodium fluoride and hydroxyapatite, have not seen any mouth rinses with both. The problem with mixing mouthrinses or toothpastes is that you will inevitably reduce the concentrations of both active ingredients, in absolute quantity they will be the same, but I wonder if they will become overwhelmed and nullified by the relatively larger quantity of non active ingredients. IIRC hydroxyapatite in toothpaste is rated 10% max in EU, and it's also most effective at that amount, for mouth rinses it is 0.465 %. It would actually be easier to find some high fluoride toothpaste that would suffer less from dilution, I've heard recommendations of around 1500ppm, so if I am not mistaken getting a 3000ppm toothpaste would allow for ok dilution if only you had another with 20% hydroxyapatite in a 1:1 ratio. Overall the solution I am settling on is fluoride rinses when waking up and going to bed, and hydroxyapatite toothpaste twice a day, no clue about the synergy there, but seems reasonable as most hydroxyapatite pastes are filling the no fluoride market niche, which comes with the nice benefit that they aren't filled with a bunch of other trash inactive ingredients, meanwhile fluoride mouth rinse less affected by such things compared to fluoride toothpastes.

I found Dr jens super paste with both Floride and 10% nanohydroxypatite, and xylitol but not stannous fluoride.

You can't get high PPM fluoride without getting a prescription unfortunately.

Be carful using high PPM fluoride. Too much fluoride can cause white spots to appear on your teeth. (I believe the dentist can clear the spots, but don't quote me on that)

For sensitivity specifically, check out one that has arginine in it, it blocks the dentin tubules.

https://www.colgateprofessional.com/dentist-resources/caries...

There are various sensodyne pastes. The one with novamin (in Europe) is called "repair and protect

I'll offer another point in support of your experience. I purchased the non-US Sensodyne, verified it had Novamin, used the entire tube as directed with no water drinking for at least half an hour afterward, and saw zero results.

> Couple with a water flosser if possible.

Aren't they generally less effective than flossing with threads?

Nah basically the same

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8236551/

I’d still use both as the abrasive action is likely to catch some things water cannot. And water able to reach areas more easily string cannot.

Novamin is not really better than fluoride, from when I looked at the studies.

Nano hydroxyapatite combined with fluoride has a little bit better evidence for it being better than fluoride alone.

You want the 10% concentration, studies show that's most effective.

Where can you buy said pastes or products in the USA?

You can get the Indian version of sensodyne with novamin on Amazon. It’s not particularly cheap though.

I like Dr jens super paste, it was one of the only ones I was able to find that has the 10% concentration that's been shown most effective in clinical trials. Apagard Royal does too but that's pricier

Nothing has worked for me so far but just discovered Dr Jens so I'm hopeful and glad to see it worked for you!

Doesn't this also happen from just eating?

Excellent question: I would also like to know the benefits of brushing without toothpaste vs with toothpaste.

Irrelevant anecdote: I had cavities as a preteen but none after. My dental hygiene is non rigorous brushing at least once a day, more if a tooth begins to feel sensitive. Last dentist visit 20 years ago.

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