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Comment by placesalt | Hacker News Reader

I'm absolutely sure they've thought of this, but I do wonder why they don't just divert the rivers around it and mine the entire place like an open-pit mine. Cart the square km or two of material off to some processing location and be done with it. It'd likely cost less than what's been spent already.

Again, I'm sure this has been thought of and rejected for a good reason. Still, doing it piecemeal doesn't seem to be working.

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Open-pit mining produces dust, and in this case that dust would be heavily contaminated, and could then end up being blown away to contaminate some new site, making the problem worse.

Additionally radiation combined with rain and snow in an open mine would add a new twist to a known problem when mining.

> and mine the entire place like an open-pit mine.

That bit specifically evokes memories of choking clouds of dust having to be sprayed down to reduce the worst of it but still creating plumes of air borne particles spreading and settling over surrounding areas.

Now with the addition of post WWII nuclear weapons refining by products.

I don’t think you quite appreciate how big the Columbia River is there, or what the terrain is like.

We once had an idea on doing large-scale terrain modifications for cheap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Plowshare

(thoroughly tongue-in-cheek)

Yep, absolutely massive river running through basalt rock. Vantage WA might as well be the Grand Canyon.

The current discharge of the Columbia River upstream of Richland is 118,000 ft3/s. That is a fifth of the Mississippi River. It is also quarter to half mile wide.

It's not an easy or cheap task, but it has been done several times already to construct dams.

I am sure they have thought of this but why don’t they “just” divert the Columbia river.

Hats off for a genuine demonstration of peak HN comment excellence.

Once upon a time commenters here used to refrain. The “I’m sure they have thought” or “I have no experience but” or “Can anyone” is a reddit spillover. It’s not peak, this is post-peak decline unless we improve the discourse.

Also sarcasm and cynicism is cheap karma. It’s better to only comment constructively.

I say all this because you me and GP have been around here a while.

> The “I’m sure they have thought” or “I have no experience but” or “Can anyone” is a reddit spillover

This tendency has been around since at least 2007. There was no HN golden age; it has always been like this.

Being around here a while isn't an excuse to ignore your own suggestions.

I’d say that

> why don’t they just divert the Columbia river.

Is very different from the actual comment,

> I am sure they have thought of this but why don’t they “just” divert the Columbia river.

I think it’s an interesting hypothetical question that’s worth asking in good faith, just to understand more.

HN is supposed to be curious, no?

This “shut up so you seem smarter” attitude is so annoying, especially online. You are not allowed to be curious about something without becoming an expert on the subject. People too wrapped up in their own egos.

Why don’t they divert the Columbia River is a probably obvious but potentially interesting question.

It’s the addition of “just” that gives it its present hilarious form.

The Columbia River is massive - think the Siene, or Danube, or Rhine.

And the topology there is far from flat - it’s at the bottom of a valley. Trying to get that much water going anywhere it isn’t already going to go will require a project similar in scale to the Hoover Dam or California Aquaduct system.

It’s a bit like asking why we can’t ‘just’ build some walls to stop hurricanes from screwing over Florida. It sounds simple enough, right?

I think framing the “just” with quotes was supposed to do the work of showing an understanding that this is not an easy solution.

And unlike your example, rivers have indeed been diverted. The question can then be reasonably interpreted as, why not this one?

And, of course, you answered that question. Thanks!

Simply rephrasing the question would get better responses.

"I'm sure they thought of this, but could someone explain why they don't just divert...?"

Those kind of questions themselves suck -- but generally here on HN the reply chain is interesting, and even such basic questions produce such interesting and sometimes 'expert' responses that I end up learning something from them.

so, I guess I mean to say that without the dumb questions I wouldn't get to enjoy the expert answers, so I appreciate them for that.

I didn't say it sucked, I singled it out as an example of excellence.

Oh, apologies. I guess I mistook it for sarcasm.

Thanks, I'm stealing this :)

It is genuine in that some techy solution was suggested for some problem. This is very HN.

Here's the Cable Bridge in Kennewick, WA (right next door to Richland) for an idea of the size of the Columbia River around here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_Bridge#/media/File:Cable...

I guess the related question is - the half life of Cs137 and St90 are both about 30 years. Can the place just be secured well enough to prevent it from being disturbed for the next few hundred years? Why keep poking at it?

That’s what they are trying to do by the sounds of it. Get rid of the worst of it then cap it.

Rain and snow force the radiation toward the river - this needs managing before the building collapses.

>I guess the related question is - the half life of Cs137 and St90 are both about 30 years.

Which is disturbing because this spill has been there for about 45 years already - it must have been as hot as hell to start with and you've got to wonder how many workers have been zapped by it over the years.

Someone should start combing through records and finding out who's been in near proximity.

Sr90 emits 1MeV beta. Very very bad if you ingest it but easy to protect yourself if you're near it.

The Cs137 is a lot harder to be around.

And we don't want either in the water or food chain.

> Cart the square km or two of material off to some processing location and be done with it.

This is the processing location.

My parents live in Richland. To get to my parents I drive past the Berkley Pit in Butte, MT, Anaconda's Smelter cleanup, Silverbow Creek cleanup, Clarkfork River cleanup, and the Milltown Dam cleanup supersites.

A gaint pit in the ground is a bad idea.

If you haven't - you should check out The Richest Hill podcast on your next drive. Really good podcast on the history of Butte.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/689406568/richest-hill

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