Anyone interested in this should also check out Canadian home prices, rental prices, the broken healthcare system and the peanuts that Canadian tech companies pay. You will be glad you did before jumping ship.
Relative to the USA’s really broken healthcare system, it’s still an improvement.
The usual Canadian caveat definitely applies: tech salaries are way lower than in the US. And the discrepancy between those salaries and cost of living here is pretty extreme even by Canadian standards.
We're also suffering from the typical West Coast city problems of homelessness/drug abuse/mental illness/property crime.
But, on the flip side: you get the best weather in the country, your backyard is some of the most beautiful nature on the planet, we have a vibrant and unique and walkable downtown, we have tons of great biking infrastructure, and there's reasonably convenient access to both Vancouver and Seattle when you need them. I love it here; it's a city with a lot of problems but a lot of potential.
I love it here too, but as someone young(ish) with a stable job and who got into a home outside the downtown core before the latest boom.. it's a lot easier to look past Victoria's faults.
No city is perfect I suppose.
Stop parroting this nonsense.
This is a complete fabrication. You can get an x-ray for anything same day in any Canadian city. There is zero backlog for x-rays.
It's common for doctors to have a "single issue per visit" policy these days, which is completely ridiculous because obviously a patient's entire overall condition should be taken into consideration when deciding on a strategy to address issues. And patients are not themselves medical professionals, they are not really in a position to say that two different symptoms are actually unconnected. But doctors are paid by the government on a per-appointment basis so they want to churn through as many as possible. They want you out the door ASAP.
We basically are dealing with third world level of care in this country, and Canadians accept it because "at least we're not America". Even middle class Canadians are being forced to travel to the US to receive basic services in a timely manner.
I particularly agree with doctors doing little proactive work, but this is very doctor dependant. I've had doctors who are like this, and others who been quite proactive. I don't see what that situation would be any different in the US.
1: https://www.cihi.ca/en/wait-times-for-priority-procedures-in...
Maybe they are talking about hip replacements taking 6 months?
I didn't mean to minimize the issues with Canada's medical system, and I can understand why there's so much frustration from people who have to deal with it.
- From the experience of people I know who have needed urgent care (heart attack, cancer, anorexia, broken bones, etc), my Ontario provincial health system works pretty well, and was often excellent. The people I know received timely, high quality treatment (despite all the bad press in the news these days), at zero out of pocket cost.
- The areas that Canadian healthcare is most falling behind on are (a) access to primary care, and (b) treatment of serious things that probably won't kill you (e.g. joint replacements, cataract surgery). For (a) few people are going to travel to the US to see a family doctor. For (b) this is mostly seniors, who usually decide to grind through another 6 months on the hip replacement wait list rather than pay US$50k today.
- US healthcare is very expensive if you're paying list price. Waiting longer and getting free care in Canada often looks pretty good by comparison. Any reimbursement from your provincial health insurance will be a small fraction of the total US bill. Maybe you could save a month on getting treatment for your cancer or whatever, but is that month worth US$100k or whatever out of your family's life savings? Most people decide "no".
- Where will you live in the US while receiving treatment (e.g. for cancer)? Will your job allow you to be away? The cost of travel and lodgings adds to the cost of the already expensive healthcare. And if you feel crummy (e.g. because you have cancer and you're on chemo) you don't want to have to go through airports and live in hotel rooms, you want to be in your home.
- If despite all the above you decide to be a medical tourist, why would you choose the US? Once you're hopping on a plane and paying cash, there are often better countries in the world. I have heard of people going to Mexico, Lebanon, and India for treatment, and much lower cost than the US, while still getting high levels of care.
My favorite example of this is Prime Minister Chretien's secret trips to the Mayo Clinic in 1999. <https://web.archive.org/web/20100204202553/http://www.montre...>
You get access to it when you need it IF you have paid for insurance. Otherwise, maybe you're on a bronze plan and whatever specialist you need to see costs $10K out of pocket, on top of the $30K in coverage you already have to pay just for base insurance.
When I was shopping, I didn't see any difference in coverage by changing the metal. I went with the Bronze, because it had the least total for monthly costs + out of pocket max, which in theory means if I don't use much, I pay less, and if I cap out, I pay less. The other metals make more sense, IMHO, if you have a lot of contact with the medical system, but not enough to hit the out of pocket max. Of course, employer based plans can be a lot better than marketplace plans, most/many marketplace plans don't over coverage out of your home area/state, where a lot of employer based plans have nationwide coverage. It's a mess.
As long as your insurance approves.
Providers cannot deny you care for your lack of insurance.
>utter bankruptcy.
Not paying your medical debt doesn't necessarily 'send' you to bankruptcy(stays on credit report for 7 years generally, unless enforced by a court order - which it usually doesn't), you have to actually file for it. But we're arguing with semantics so I'll just agree with you.
However, that is not what you said.
Your comment implied that someone has to be approved by insurance to receive treatment, which is not true.
No one over 50 and worrying about death would rather be in Canada though.
I had family members who had heart attacks at roughly the same time, one in the US and one in Canada. It is unbelievable how slow everything goes in Canada when they were both needing basically the same treatments.
It's complex, but overall the US system is better than Canada's. It's not as clear cut comparing the US to some European countries, but with Canada it's mostly clear cut. And it's especially clear cut for tech workers. If you work in tech, you're highly likely to have very good coverage through your employer, you will almost surely experience much better availability and speed of care, probably better quality, and the extra out-of-pocket costs are absolutely dwarfed by the superior pay in the US.
Same goes for Sweden btw.
The pay is more like 40%-20% lower. Senior devs can just negotiate remote roles with US companies.
Rent in Toronto is definitely not the same as SF, even if you ignore the currency gap. Cost of living overall is way cheaper.
Toronto rent is definitely cheaper though. But probably not enough for the pay discrepancy and higher taxes
Specifically, despite having higher population per square mile than the US (1 person per 10 miles compared to 1 person per 80 miles), they have about the 6th of the population, and fewer major city centers (about 10 > 500k in Canada versus about 30 > 500k in the US).
Fewer large city centers translates to fewer tech companies, more competition for housing hence home and rent increases, less reliable health care, and of the fewer tech companies that do exist they have a smaller market, hence lower pay.
Climate/terrain is also a huge issue, large portions of their provinces are either frozen tundra or "back-woods-y", which is great if you want to live on a farm or go long-distance skiing or sledding, but pretty poor for building population centers. I wouldn't want to be living there right now with the recent outbreaks of fires and smoke/smog, either (not all their fault, but).
This is not a set of problem unique to Canada, either - depending on where you live in the US the health care system can be equally or worse broken, thanks to localized over-population or under-population - e.g. Maine/Alaska have a lot of problems with being both poor and barren states with mostly tourism for industry, and simultaneously absurdly expensive to live in due to their tourism, states like NYC and SoCal suffer extreme over-population that necessitates small fortunes to even maintain a meager lifestyle and drive out lower-class workers, and on the flip side overly conservative states like Texas suffer from rampant corruption and as a result healthcare and utilities are generally some mix of unsafe, unaffordable, in-accessible, outside of the large city centers (and now in some cases illegal thanks to recent political events in the US).
I think you have this way backwards. Canada has a larger land mass than the US, but about 10% of the population.
3,855,103 sq m 36,991,981 people in Canada is 36,991,981 / 3,855,103 ~= 10 people per square mile. 3,794,100.43 sq m ~300 000 000 people in US is 300 000 000 / 3,794,100.43 ~= 80 people per square mile.
So yes, US is more populated (which is what I incidentally thought initially, I figured it was map skew not a units flip so I didn't question it), but my point remains - Canada has fewer population centers than the US.