I feel like if your query ends up being quite large in complexity then maybe it is a time to create a view or stored procedure depending on the use-case and have ORM call that one instead.

To me ORM is quite useful to have some data classes that I can use with it to automatically handle various generic operations and maybe some relationships. Many ORM frameworks will also auto-create tables with the relationship constraints, provided you setup your data classes correctly.

The moment you start linking up too many ORM operations together makes me want to abstract it away into a view/procedure. It will be easier to debug that view/procedure rather than inspecting what your ORM has generated and how to fix it.

I am interested to hear if someone has other insight into how to utilize ORM frameworks properly.