Hacker News Reader

Comment by victor106 | Hacker News Reader

[flagged]

'Woke' is a very loaded word. A heads up that if you use it in the way you just did, people will assume certain things about you. Unless you don't care, in which case continue so that everyone knows what assumption they should make.

I mean to avoid using it, the parent could have rephrased it as an "I don't want to offend anyone". That's not "woke", that's decency.

> I don't want to offend anyone.

I like your intention, but that is impossible.

I don't think you can assume someones internal views by use of word, especially such a term with a complex history that means different things to different people.

The way you present it seems to have more problems than the 'not care' use case.

The quotation marks denote a very specific form of usage, one that generally implies a disregard/disrespect for those who use the word legitimately.

Using the word isn't the issue, it's How you use it.

Like using the word Jew. It's fine if you're saying "I'm a Jew" but not fine if you say "Get a load of that Jew over there".

Is that clear enough?

I disagree with your definition. Quotation marks reference the quoted word when used in context.

Btw, has this subthread been pruned from from the main discussion thread ?

The use of quotations on a Single word which had no unusual usage in common parlance and which was not being used to request clarification is implicitly being air quoted... Y'know, the thing bigots do to cowardly deride others.

Are you playing a game here?

You can debate all you want the merits of it. I am stating a fact.

Some people will assume X and some will assume Y and the majority won't bother to assume anything.

I wasn't debating.

I'm an ABCD and never found it offensive , since I refer to myself as one and it's a non-issue if another ABCD uses to refer to me with that term. But it can be offensive to some if it comes from non-ABCDs. Usually in those cases, its perceived as a pejorative. (Personally it has never bothered me. But some can be sensitive to it)

Whether or not something is offensive almost always depends on context. Knowing your context requires careful listening and respect for those around you. This is true regardless of whether or not you use one particular term or not.

If you do not intend to be respectful, then was there ever any issue in the first place? Your disrespect will be conveyed regardless.

If you do intend to be respectful, then you will know if using it is offensive or not in your given context.

> If you do intend to be respectful, then you will know if using it is offensive or not in your given context.

It's very easy to intend to be respectful but misread the context. Also, there are words that are so taboo they are not ok in any context.

I find it particularly hard to navigate the English taboos from a non native perspective. I believe the person asking wants to know how the word is seen by others, which is great in my opinion. Direct communication is much better than trying to guess.

I agree, and am merely encouraging this direct communication to be used with those you are directly speaking to. When it comes to things like this, there might be some broad understanding, but it doesn’t necessarily apply to the person you are speaking to.

Direct communication about sensitive topic, and even non-sensitive topics, is offensive or at least rude in many to most cultures.

Saying "I want the ketchup" at the kitchen table is generally considered rude.

True, that's why it's useful to ask it online where you care less about offending people instead of asking it at a dinner party.

  I believe the person asking wants to know how the word is seen by others,
  which is great in my opinion.

Unlikely. Their tell is:

  these “woke” times

Maybe he didn't mean that much by it. Different people, different countries, different contexts. Specially online, we definitely need to give the benefit of the doubt. A friend of mine, who doesn't speak English very well, thought the n word was a completely fine way to reference your mate. He was mortified to know what he was actually saying.

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with how the term woke is currently used vis a vis American politics. It's a pejorative typically used as the foundation of a disingenuous argument about being respectful towards others or as a way of demonizing anything you disagree with.

Woke was used in line with its most common meaning and scare quotes were added. It wasn't a mistake and the context was made explicit (offending people). It was used out of ignorance, sure, but not the kind of naive ignorance you're suggesting. It was used as a dog whistle.

Unlike "the n word" which, in a familiar context, is used as a term of endearment in some groups, woke as an adjective has long since ceased to be used as anything other than a derogatory term used to vilify people you dislike.

Woke used to be an endearing term at some point. You're assuming that the quotes are there to poke fun of it, they could be there because it's a foreign or coloquial term that the author is a bit unsure about too. You have not to lose by assuming good intention until irrevocably proven wrong. The US, being influential, ends up exporting a lot of its internal politics, however other parts of the world don't necessarily interpret them in the same way. I've seen people in Brazil using the term woke in a positive way. To be honest, I only learned now that it's always pejorative.

The context where it was quoted makes clear they are from a culture/community where unfamiliarity is not a reason for the quotation marks.

The intent and meaning is pretty damn clear imo.

  I've seen people in Brazil

We're talking about an American term (ABCD), not a Brazilian one.

I disagree. Stay woke.

Perhaps unlikely, but one of the rules of this site is to assume noble intent. I try to apply this, and I think it does generate overall higher quality discussion.

I think it is one of those terms that can only be used to refer to yourself.

You can call yourself whatever want, as long as the title doesn't contain an insult to someone else.

You can call someone else anything they consent to, even late for dinner.

The only thing insulting in ABCD is "confused".

Reply on news.ycombinator.com