Hacker News Reader

Comment by dutchbrit | Hacker News Reader

> This is bad, because the IP can only be turned into personal information via cooperation of the users internet provider.

Not 100% true, you can often trace back users by IP using leaked databases and through companies that sell user data. Might not be legal, but you definitely don't need cooperation from a ISP.

View on HN

In that case the database is the PII, not the IP.

If Person A has a document saying that Joe Biden lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue

and Person B has a document saying an 80 year old male living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue has Chlamydia

do you think only Person A holds private information?

Users use the same passwords everywhere. By cross-referencing user passwords through excessive brute force you could find accounts on other sites that link to a user’s personal data.

Is the password personal data?

You have to draw the line of correlation difficultly somewhere.

I would expect a company to guard customers' passwords every bit as carefully as they guard customers' e-mail addresses, and probably moreso, yes.

The term "personally identifiable information" does not occur anywhere within the text of GDPR. GDPR regulates the use of personal data, which is conceptually much broader than PII. Any data that relates to a natural living person is potentially within the scope of GDPR, including data that is insufficient in isolation to identify a natural living person. For example, pseudonymised data from an employee database or medical records may still constitute personal data if it would be possible to reconstruct the identity of that individual by inference, even if all direct identifiers have been removed.

https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/r...

So someone can be identified, directly or indirectly, with an IP address, making it personal data under GDPR, art. 4(1).

What does "indirectly" include legally?

Any piece of information that can be related to someone using supplementary information. Eg. My personnal email address contains my name, so I can be identified direclty; my phone number doesn’t, but my operator and contacts knows who is behind it, so I can be identified indirectly.

If the IP is dynamic then how would you know who had it at the time?

you make a join between the "user session" and the "user profile" tables

Because ISPs are keeping lease logs.

How would you get that information?

Court order, security incident, insider access.

Easily

You might be able to trace an IP back to a user, but you're absolutely not guaranteed that that IP was only used by that particular user.

Therefore even on a technical level this EU legal interpretation is insane, hundreds or thousands of people can potentially use the same IP address, how is that personal information then?

I don’t think the goal is to find a single IP for a crime or something. In that case, law enforcement just subpoenas and they’ll sort out the thousands using the IP to the actual person (possible with ISP participation).

I don’t think it’s insane because the more common use is just to pattern match to identify the individuals. While lots of people may share, many do not (eg, everyone in my home shared an external IP but that is frequently just one person).

Google can use this IP and browser traffic to separate out individuals (eg, I don’t watch YouTube and my kid never checks vanguard) to the level they convince advertisers that they know the individual. I expect this is why my kindergartner sees ads for car insurance.

> Therefore even on a technical level this EU legal interpretation is insane, hundreds or thousands of people can potentially use the same IP address, how is that personal information then?

ISP knows exactly who used IP at that point in time (they are even obliged by law to log them). Therefore IP from which a request was sent can be used to uniquely identify the device, with 100% certainty. Therefore it is (usually) a personal information.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com