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Comment by MuffinFlavored | Hacker News Reader

More like most women don't find men who program interesting/fun.

Most men who program aren't "good with socializing" let alone "good with socializing with women".

> More like most women don't find men who program interesting/fun.

I hear a lot of heterosexual male SW engineers lament this, but I find it not true in practice. We live in a world dominated (and even inundated) by messaging that navigating technology is a recipe for success. It usually pays decently to well. Programmers don't have dating problems from their profession.

The issue is that the personality traits that tend to correlate with good programming and software engineering - logic, reasoning, detachment, analysis, thinking outside the box - don't tend to correlate well with interpersonal and especially romantic interpersonal relationships. In order to be successful in relationships, those types of minds have to consistently and constantly do things they consider completely irrational and uncomfortable, which is difficult to maintain.

All these things have their own kind of logic to them. It's possible to learn/train people/empathy. There's a lot of people who can't get themselves to believe that it's worth investing, in though. But people skills do come in handy, also when solving non-romantic problems at scale.

It has little to do with lack of empathy. I've found the problem is far more to do with oversharing conclusions based on observations. Empathy is typically in hindsight. You expect the other person to be intelligent, observant, reasonable, and logical. What you did say is not something that would have offended yourself or other like-minded individuals. So when it does offend, the empathy kicks in and you realize your mistake. Which is often just over-estimating the other person.

Empathy as a skill is relevant in adapting the way you assert the same logical points toward a person, e.g. by taking their state of mind into account when it comes to phrasing, pacing, how much context to include. On the fly, with course-corrections.

If you want an engineering analogy, it's a bit like adding a suspension system to a wheel to improve traction.

It's very practical!

Your statement even downplays the negative reception thinkers like these receive when they share their observations. One "tactful" lapse and that first impression is set. It is a serious uphill battle from that point on.

Programming is a low status job. You might make 7 figures as an engineer but you’re gonna be dateless because programming is still associated with low status.

Status is very important for most women.

The bullshit titles that so often make us roll our eyes come in handy here.

You write REST APIs thirty-five hours a week? "Communications Designer". You oversee two juniors? "Team Lead". You tweak microcode? "R&D Specialist". And so on.

thats a first world thing. I've met plenty of women outside the united states who found it interesting including my last two girlfriends. I ended up teaching them both the basics of javascript!

many men who program have an avoidant attachment style?

N=1, but...

I'm a male who programs and have an avoidant attachment style. I haven't struggled to find a date since 11th grade or so.

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