What's the endgame here? Why even turn the subs back on? The admins have made their intentions clear enough, I think.
1. Reddit management gets their head out of their asses and negotiates a better change to API fees and structure. Throughout this whole ordeal everyone else (Apollo dev, mods, etc.) has made extremely reasonable points, but Reddit management seems to be gaslighting and arguing in bad faith at every turn.
2. If management doesn't change, Reddit should die. Why should all these mods donate huge amounts of time to a platform that disrespects them at every turn?
CEO and everyone that though this is the way to monetize need to go.
Please point out, specifically, where he has done this. Otherwise, STFU.
To be clear, it's not like I've been following every one of his posts, so it's quite possible he said things that aren't accurate. So far, though, I've seen nothing but vague accusations against Christian, and when he did call bullshit and brought the receipts to back it up, u/spez said he was "leaking a private call". Queen please, he libeled Christian and then when Christian brought evidence to prove him wrong he complained!! What an asshat.
2. Moderator actions are exempt from the API charges... But I think this decision was made after things had blown up.
The thing about "moderator actions being exempt from API changes" is just plain silly. If you're going to put time into making a third party app, you still have to shut down even if the mod parts of your app are free if the cost of other users is untenable.
Every single 3rd party app that I've even heard of is also shutting down, so how people can try to spin this as something specific that Apollo did is baffling to me.
Yeah, I don't believe it. Go back and read his posts from 5+ years ago when Imgur went from $25/mo to $250/mo for 7.5 million requests.
You are telling me he is still grandfathered on a plan from over 5 years ago? As one of their heaviest API users? (probably)
That was 5+ years ago, it's only gotten more expensive.
Also, he implemented a caching system that saved some 18 million requests (I think 90%, forget off the top of my head).
But he'll never talk about how even if he's being completely honest, he's getting an INSANE deal from Imgur.
The same plan today would cost $3.3K to Reddit's $12K. But he'd never tell you that.
But more importantly, it's patently obvious that Reddit's sole goal was to shutoff every 3rd party app, because that is exactly what happened. This isn't just about Christian, literally every other 3rd party app developer found the new API terms untenable as well. If it was just Christian being unreasonable, as you are suggesting, but some other app developer ran the numbers and thought "well, that's OK, I could still make a business off that", they would be thrilled to come in and fill the void with Apollo leaving.
None of them are doing that. Your point is totally moot.
I think the real thing that Reddit has to worry about is that upset activists could directly start spamming the site in order to justify their warnings about what will happen without mods. "Nice subreddits you have here, would hate to see anything happen to them if you don't accede to our demands."
Right now, admins will probably replace a few dozens of mods, and then the rest of the site will be back in 2 days, and nothing will change.
For example, /r/askhistorians is going private for 48h and reopens readonly indefinitely after. /r/pathofexile as far as I understand won't be going private but goes readonly once again indefinitely. etc
Wow, that'll really show them who's boss! /s
Also you have to think about the media coverage. This way you have two times the possible media coverage instead of just once and then everybody forgets about it.
Communities can thrive or fail depending on who is in charge.
(What happened with regard to the mod banning an artist because they thought their art looked like it came from an AI? Last I heard the artist was able to show their workflow but the mod was unwilling to back down…)
TD was quarantined under false pretenses (ironic ones too, since a very pro police sub was accused of being anti police) and then basically killed while pretending it was alive.
KIA is alive but heavily muzzled by admins on some topics such as a prohibition to mention trans in any shape or form. The mod takeover was because the original founder who didn't use the site took over it once and destroyed it something.
There's been other cases where founders wreck havoc after years of not being active and were removed.
Problem solved.
No one has left twitter, despite Elon's tantrums.
Do you really think CEOs care when their site has so much momentum and mods can be replaced in a snap?
There’s a lot of moderators out there moderating by hand and using bots to run some of the bigger subreddits, much like IRC. Without those bots having access to the APIs, that job gets harder and it’s less likely to be done well.
Personally I think Steve Huffman is the fall guy here and this is coming from the money people who have zero interest in where Reddit is beyond 6 months after the IPO. Reddit also has a history putting people in place to make controversial decisions only to fire them months later as appeasement to their community. Ellen Pao was the most recent example.
That said, Huffman’s handling of this was bumbling at best.
It demonstrated a failure to understand his own users or the culture of the site.
For that alone, he should go.
But there are plenty of other reasons company leadership has failed its community, particularly it’s unpaid workers moderating content.
Personally, if I were in charge with Reddit I'd go for an approach that required 3rd party clients to show ads that come back from Reddit's APIs and allow users to opt-out of adds for a small monthly fee directly from the user or even from the app developers who choose to incorporate it into their fee structure. Apps who don't comply get banned.
The approach Reddit is going for is stupid and is burning goodwill earned over more than a decade.
> Of those who are active, most just comment
You don't need the 'vast majority' or 'most'. You just need a few.
> It's a vanishingly small group who actually want to moderate
Not really, more people thank you seem to think are desperate for any sort of internet power.
But Reddit doesn't need shitty mods. They need good mods. Shitty mods kill communities.