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thatguyknows

This is satire right? Does the author really not get what “we don’t trade with ants” is actually getting at?

Perhaps to frame it better: do humans trade with GOD?

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It's a shitty analogy, and TFA is pointing it out.

> Perhaps to frame it better: do humans trade with GOD?

This is also a terrible analogy because:

1. There is no general agreement on whether or not any deities exist, and if so, which ones.

2. Historically, many religions do involve trade with one or more deities (e.g. protect me from this battle and I will sacrifice 2 goats when I get home). While this is more commonly associated with pagan religions, the Abrahamic religions are not entirely devoid of this tradition either.

If God exists, it is not a deity.

Deities are low-dimensional approximations of what is infinite and unquantifiable.

No general agreement, noted

"Not entirely devoid"? Abrahamic religions are built on a bedrock of contracts (albeit rather one-sidedly negotiated) with God. The 10 commandments, basically the entirety of Leviticus, etc.

Heck, every mainstream religion with dieties has some sort of teaching with the idea that "human does x, God does y".

I say "not entirely devoid" because a large fraction of modern Protestantism is rather far from the contractual roots; they were so obsessed with stamping out pharisaical legalism that they went from "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." to "Salvation is by faith alone"

By faith alone, and/or already predestined.

It's not a shitty analogy. Most people completely understand what it's getting at. Inability to understand is a reflection on you, not the analogy. And being pedantic is not a positive trait or intellectually impressive.

The distinction is important because an AGI developed by humans is probably going to have (at least vestigial) ability to communicate with humans in some way.

It's entirely possible that it will have no use for humans, but if that's what the analogy is getting at, it's doing so poorly.

God in the gnostic Logos sense: the all encompassing universe, the forces that act within it, so on.

In more current vernacular: do humans trade with the big bang? do humans trade with the expansion of the universe, and it's inevitable collapse back into the initial singularity?

Humans absolutely try trade with god in the form of cosmic karma ? I’m not saying they get something in return but they do try.

If my understanding of mythology is current, it's only the devil who considers bargaining, and it's never to our benefit.

Following that idea, if AI ever needed to "trade" with humans I suspect we'd be taking the worse end of the trade every time (the trade would be for its benefit, and unlikely to benefit us).

Kind of like when the U.S. "trades" with a third-world country. The U.S will just make an offer they can't refuse. But taking the trade often perpetuates their dependence on the U.S. or has long-term consequences for them.

Which is why countries the US have embargoed have advanced leaps and bounds over their neighbors with trade relationships. Oh wait, it is the exact fucking opposite. Seriously it seems some people can't pry off their exploitation and imperialism goggles. The U.S. could commit imperialism by sitting quietly in another room in their minds.

There's plenty of stories in European folklore where people successfully bargain with the devil. Usually they manage to cheat the devil somehow.

The Christian god certainly made bargains, like asking Abraham to sacrifice his son in return for something.

No it's not satire. It's one of those clickbaity contrarian articles like "actually using goto is great" or "sometimes wearing pants on head is the smart thing to do." The maxim that they are reacting to is the idea that because we don't trade with ants, smart AI won't trade with us if the cognitive difference is similar. I think their take is that once you can overcome some minimum threshold of communication ability then it does often make sense to trade with others even if they are much much stupider than you are, and that the reason we don't trade with ants is because of that communication barrier. Presumably they are suggesting that even if we will be much much stupider than AI, we will still be able to communicate with the AI in some manner that exceeds that threshold, and therefore they might want to trade with us in some way. But my main point is that it's a contrarian clickbait take that isn't meant to be taken too seriously or to be taken as satire it's to be taken as something to click on.

The idea that this framing is better than the original really goes to show that superintelligent AIs aren't being discussed because they're a realistic near-future possibility, but because they let techie atheists ponder religious concepts like omnipotence and god without admitting to themselves that that's what they're doing.

>they let techie atheists ponder religious concepts like omnipotence and god without admitting to themselves that that's what they're doing

There's a reason the singularity has been called "the rapture for nerds" since forever. Beliefs about runaway AGI (in particular the assumption that it would have nigh godlike powers,) along with a lot of UFO culture and belief in simulation theory are literally just religion with the serial numbers filed off.

> do humans trade with GOD?

Yes, humans trade with God(s). But it's an article of faith, much as is our cherished notion that those around us are thinking machines, just like us.

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