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Comment by Solvency | Hacker News Reader

My fear at not tipping at literally every Square/Clover terminal (coffee shop, sandwich shop, etc) is that the employee...who almost always vigilantly watches to see if I tap on one of the unavoidable tip options...may seek revenge for me not tipping. Doing something to the food, drink, whatever.

I feel like the whole modern POS system customer UX is designed to make the act of not tipping feel so overt, miserly, and risky.

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My rule there is that there will be no tipping until after a service is performed. It makes no sense to provide a range of tipping options for the predicted service that may be provided.

Exactly. I could get my coffee and drink half of it before i realize there is a dead bug in it, etc. I could go back and get another, but now my opinion of the service is negative. And why would I trust the next cup?

Ditto for tipping before you get in the cab. They could take you on a loop around the city, or drive you to a back alley and rape/rob you. You tip after you arrive.

Table service, taxi, and maybe bellboy schlepping heavy luggage to a hotel room -- and after the work is done.

I wonder what would happen if I refuse to interact with the terminal and ask the cashier to read it to me. Would they select a tip without asking? Would they be too embarrassed to ask me for a tip to my face?

Feels like punishing the wrong person, but it would be still interesting to test.

This is a weird fear. I worked in restaurants in college and a terrible cafe in grad school in a wealthy/old money-ish neighborhood. The cafe had terrible tips despite there being made to order food and tons of regular customers. We just made fun of stingy customers behind their backs. No one I've ever known in food service of the bar industry HAS EVER tampered with or spit in a drink/food. First and foremost, you'd be fired on the spot if anyone saw it. Also, food service people, and this may surprise you, also eat in restaurants.

That's admirable that you didn't spit in anybody's food, but why is it stingy not to tip for counter service, or did you have wait staff at your cafe?

It isn’t admirable, it’s just not a thing that anyone really did or does.

It seems to me that if someone takes your order and cooks hot door for you and a place you go to twice a week, it’s decent to tip at least occasionally. If staff knows your name and order and remembers details about you, but out always select no tip, that’s pretty anti-social.

Ditto for free coffees, stuff on the house, half-price Tuesdays...

> This is a weird fear.

To be fair, most fears people have are weird when you really examine them.

Sure, we’re just talking about this particular one here and now.

I'll tip for an espresso beverage, because there's skill involved in making a nice cappuccino - at a minimum you need to be sure to foam the milk without boiling it.

There was a place (in Berkeley of course) where I was pretty sure that if the barista didn't like your tip, they'd boil the milk for you.

Subtle. I like that man.

I've been using cash more and more since these 'tipping suggested' kiosks and payment terminals have become more popular.

Has anyone managed to try tipping a negative amount (to fill a security curiosity )?

Why would the tipping screen have a negative sign? Not that I haven't encountered service that I wished I could've tipped a negative amount for . . . .

It doesn't necessarily need to be a '-'. Find a value for the tip that overflows the variable type, possibly. I'm not suggesting that this is likely. Curiosity above what code is running under the covers is all.

Another anecdote - I worked in SEVERAL restaurants for over a decade and never once even HEARD of that happening.

Same with fudging credit card tips. I HEARD of that happening exactly once.

Both are overblown, almost urban legends.

That's heartening to hear... but I'm still afraid of it happening to me.

Yes. 99% are just too busy to fuck with your food.

> Same with fudging credit card tips. I HEARD of that happening exactly once.

It happened to me a couple years ago. Got a copy of the receipt where they wrote their own tip, which I could trivially prove since I had a picture of the receipt as I left it. The bar tried to blame it on a random customer. Yeah, OK. Informed everyone in the big group I was with that the place tries to steal from you and have never been back. You have now heard of that happening exactly twice.

On balance this is a very classist reaction. Restaurant staff in general is not going to stick their neck out to assault customers.

It's not a general problem... if 99/100 won't spit in your coffee, that's still gonna cause anxiety.

Not all restaurant workers are rational agents.

Imagine the number of people who aren't tipping throughout their workday. You don't matter to them enough for them to lay their livlihood on the line for "revenge", I promise.

Holy shit man grow some balls. Yes, this is a constructive comment. You cannot let yourself be pushed around and extorted by such petty 'fears'.

Anecdote, but most often the employees I encounter will politely look away, or the terminal will be positioned in a way that it provides cover.

Surely they can see the result of the sale after it has transacted though, right? Doesn’t the system that is used to ring the stuff up show the payment history for the order that’s currently being prepared?

In most foodservice jobs, there simply isn't enough time to scrutinize the receipt like that. There are exceptions, I'm sure, but my days waiting tables were infinitely more hectic than my days as a sysadmin.

> who almost always vigilantly watches to see if I tap on one of the unavoidable tip options

Well, they would see it on their screen anyway right?

There are a number of places in my city where if you add a tip on at the PoS, the employee will look at the amount and remove that amount of cash from the till and put it in the tip jar.

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