'Guilt Tipping': Pressure to tip has gotten out of control

I recently formed a very simply rule for myself to mitigate this nonsense: no table service, no tip. Boom, guilt/pressure eliminated.

Implementing a policy (at, say, Starbucks) to add a prompt to every point-of-sale interaction to simply ask for more money is corporate panhandling.

I'll happily pay higher prices to support your staff.

> “My suggestion is you do leave a tip, even if it’s small, at least it’s something,” said etiquette expert and author Jacqueline Whitmore, adding that she typically leaves a 10 to 15% gratuity for takeout services and suggests others give at least 10%. “The bottom line is this. Tipping is good karma … it’s never mandatory, but it’s customary.”

It's 'customary' to tip for takeout? since when?

Tips are a percentage. Therefore, they track inflation perfectly. Even without any changes a 15% tip today should still be more in terms of raw dollars than a 15% tip ten-years ago.

We're getting hit with double inflation: Literal inflation (causing tips to be higher at the same percentage) but on top of that percentage inflation.

This is something I miss about Europe. They just paid workers a fair wage, prices weren't misleading (by 20% or more), and there's no odd pitting customer Vs. [lower] workers going on. Feels like an intentional technique to deflect blame, get high margins via low wages, and to make it "those darn customers just aren't double-dipping enough by paying you AND me!!!"

Service workers are very pro-tipping. The problem they have is that all this is causing huge tipping burnout and making questions about how arbitrary tipping itself is gain popularity (e.g. why aren't I tipping the cook? Or for my oil change? etc). It is going to backfire.

I put a lot of blame on the new POS 'self checkout' style that Square and Toast popularized. These let you configure the system to default add the tipping prompt, and it detaches the service provider from the self consciousness of asking for a tip at inappropriate times. Previously, there were only a few times when a consumer would be prompted for a tip in an official capacity - i.e. from a server at a restaurant - now, it can be institutionalized with the push of an admin button in some backend web console that any finance person can push and configure.

"Completely up to the patron", ugh.

That's not how social interactions work. When you are right there in front of the person who will be receiving part of that tip, it is extremely socially awkward to do a low or no amount, even if in theory there was nothing to "tip". (No service, such as take-out)

The choice is right in front of you, and you chose the lowest amount. Is it because you're a jerk? Is it because you think people at (JOB) don't deserve a decent wage? Do you just hate less-wealthy people because you're a snob?

This is even worse if you obviously go out of you way to open another menu to choose a lower amount (going out of you way), and worse again if you are a regular at that business. (You're going to have to see this person again)

That's the kind of feeling I get when I'm facing a tip prompt. It's easier to suffer the monetary loss than the social pain. Even if it's just for a product and no service, even if the prompt amounts are ridiculous, even if it's for a massive multi-billion dollar company that should pay decent wages instead of laying it on me.

I hate it, it's awful, and I hope some day it changes. But I don't think it will. I feel like we're trapped in this now.

This problem has become ridiculous, and has led me to completely revamp my tipping strategy.

I'll still tip for the things that traditionally have been subject to tips. Dining where I'm being served, cab rides, hotel housekeeping, etc., but I'll no longer be as generous in my tipping. And I will no longer add a tip at the point of sale no matter what.

Nobody else gets a dime except when some individual actually goes above and beyond for me. If a place insists on demanding inappropriate tips through PoS machines, I'll avoid going there in the future.

This tipping problem actively worsens my day. Enough is enough.

That final store profiled who said "Personally, I view that the tip culture where we live has become part of the norm to the point where people don’t view it as any sort of pressure," and had not 1 way to tip but 2 methods of tipping and a "Good Person" test charity guiltbox complete with 2 QR codes to donate in case you "don't have any change", seems to be more tipping than actual store at this point, I mean the menu of things to buy is a fraction of the size of the tipping and charity guilt detritus.

What a nightmare, like something you'd see a comedy sketch of.

Glad to see a US article calling this out (even if it is the nypost).

With US multinational payment providers using this to shoehorn US tipping culture into other countries which previously had more sane (if still flawed) service payment norms, I'm curious to see if it results in a homogenization of cultures around the world (even negating cultures where tipping is considered offensive in favour of westernised norms) OR just a big ol' backlash. Fingers crossed it's the latter, but I'm pessimistic.

I was out shopping with a family member over the weekend and found that the Rubicon had just been crossed: The checkout at a retail store prompted for a tip.

I didn't see it myself (we were at a Five Below and I didn't need anything) but it apparently came up on the screen after all the items had been rung up. Not that it even matters at this point, but as an added absurdity... this was in the self-checkout.

The funny thing is, I think I actually welcome this. I've become a tipping accelerationist now: Please, prompt me to tip at the bank. Not just the teller, when I log on to online banking. Prompt me to tip when I pay my electric bill. Let's see how far this can go before it all burns down.

One significant difference between this new point-of-sale prompt for a tip, compared to previous customs is that this is now asking for the tip before you receive the product or service on offer. This means that you do not yet know how your service will be, but you are being asked to tip. Also, you now worry that if you do not tip, you risk a negative response - like slower service, or worse.

When we tipped for table service at a restaurant, or a haircut, cab ride, etc, we already had received the service and could tip based on our level of appreciation, without fear of retaliation.

I find myself avoiding a lot of establishments altogether. First the prices are insane, add the tipping thing and I leave these transactions feeling scummed.

The issue is the possible in-person judgement associated with the tip. Traditionally a waiter will not look at your signed bill at your table. They didn't stand over you with a mobile POS system waiting for the tip. Generally those who receive cash tips do not count it in front of the customer. They will find out the tip amount, but not in front of your face.

But with the POS systems, its easy to tell how much someone tipped. Did they go left or right? Even if they turn around the system and don't stare at the screen, they can figure it out. They especially know when you put in a custom tip amount, which is assumed to be lower. Some even show the tip amount to the service person as they turn it back around. There is an pressure to push the center or rightmost amount out of nicety.

I always tip the traffic cop when he pulls me over to thank him for such great service.

Point of sale extortion. You must tip or risk getting an ugly glare, incompetent service, delayed food, cold food, etc...

It is part and parcel of the general breakdown in civility after Covid. You don't have to go far online to see videos of thieves blatantly walking out of stores. Petty crime has gone up everywhere. Speeding cars are everywhere. Demanding crowds are everywhere.

I was in New Zealand last month where tipping is non-existent in their culture. I visited Tara Iti golf club while I was there. The waitress found out I was American and she asked me how much I wanted to tip when checking out. I asked her if it was customary, knowing it wasn't. She said no, but Americans often leave a generous tip. It was rather an uncomfortable experience. I felt guilty and caved.

I simply never tip. If I get asked for a tip before they've even done anything, I definitely don't tip. I'm not American so I just blame it on cultural misunderstandings.

This is a misdirection.

I hear people discuss this issue all the time and the focus, like TFA, is focused on compensation and ‘labor demanding too much from consumers’. But consider that processing fees (at least in the US) are generally a small fixed fee of some cents + a percentage of the transaction.

Including tips in the default POS checkout flow has more to do with card transaction fees determined in large part by the transaction size, which creates a strong incentive to boost that transaction total in any way possible.

Similarly, do you ever wonder why everyone wants to you donate to a charitable cause at the grocery store all of the sudden as part of a similar flow in industries that don’t have a tradition of tipping? I suspect that card processors have discovered guilt is more effective than up-sales at increasing transaction size and has been a major driver of increased revenues over the past years.

Edit to add: transaction fee clarity

It has got to a point where i really don’t like to go out anymore. Last time I picked up a pizza the tablet gave me 20% as the minimum tip.

Got my oil changed last week. At the end when passed the credit card machine, it asked if I wanted to give a 20%, 25%, or 30% tip. On an oil change, where the technician is certainly making market wages and not some lower rate meant to be augmented by tips. The madness has to end and I think the only way is via regulation. The free market is exacerbating this downward spiral rather than correcting for the idiocy.

I've seen this a lot lately. I never personally experience this guilt, but understandably a lot of people do when publicly presented with this choice. I'm not sure what the solution is, but the companies producing and providing these point of sale tablets have made it far too easy to request a tip in situations that have no business asking for a tip. I suspect that the option exists to disable it, but then we have a problem of defaults situation and only the most respectable business owner is ever going to consider losing revenue to make their customers feel better.

At any rate. No service, no tip. For me this means I near exclusively tip only at restaurants which I'd still prefer raises their prices and got rid of tipping culture.

Meanwhile, politicians in the US are literally almost dancing with glee [1] as they vote down efforts to establish a reasonable minimum wage.

I don't understand this weird system where we all basically prop up corporate profits at the expense of voluntarily paying more by default.

I do tip occasionally at the counter due to social pressure, and honestly have felt scammed several times when the server didn't get my order right, or didn't even bother to write my name correct after getting the 20% tip from my card. It is pretty clear to me at this point that tips have nothing to do with service.

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[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNo_U7PTGzk

People that complain about this are pushovers IMO; the exact target demographic for these sorts of tipping UI elements. Those of us who tip as compensation for service don't have an existential crisis over it. Those who tip because it is expected are pulling their hair put and terrified that someone won't smile at them.

Just dont do it. If someone didn't bring food to my house, take my order at a table, or pour me an alcoholic beverage, they don't get a tip. The fact that they would expect one without doing these things is deserving of disdain, not the other way around.

Guilt tipping - that's exactly how I would describe my experience in Germany. I talked with someone who works as a waitress in a bar, and from her words, the customer is expected to tip 10% for good service. Her definition of good service was more of an average service when nothing went bad. And tipping should be limited only to the staff job, so the fact that more than half of the establishments in Germany accept only cash is not a valid reason to tip less apparently. And the most important reason according to her for customers having to tip was the fact that the waiters earn a minimum wage. I find this whole thing ridiculous. The industry and the establishment owner managed to convince them that it is my duty as a customer to give them tips and feel responsible for them making a minimum wage.

I simply stopped eating out post covid ... saved tons of money, eating healthier, and zero guilt!

a productive day at the NY Post posting flamebaity articles meant to pit workers / middle classers against each other, entirely ignoring the fact that the minimum wage they refer towards as disqualifying the need for tipping has not been raised in fourteen years and still places workers well below the poverty line.

I think about it this way: To people you are tipping, the accumulated money they bring in probably means a lot more to them than it means to you. I mean, I make enough money that a few dollars each time I go out doesn't affect my life at all. But it probably adds up to the people making $10/hour, and can make a big impact.

If you pay with cash you never get a tip prompt.

This topic comes up on hacker news time and time again, and it is always incredible to see the lengths people go to feel good about not tipping.

If you cannot afford to tip, don't. It's not required, and you are probably in a worse place than whoever is receiving your tip.

If tipping is a rounding error compared to your compensation, don't tip, since then you're just encouraging tipping, which is expensive for people not you. Remember - by not tipping, you're helping less fortunate consumers. It's the moral choice.

Tipping exploits the american culture of niceness: when one feels compelled to look nice even when it's against his interests and contradicts common sense.

> “I would say I felt more uncomfortable about it before COVID, but now I know the sacrifices that so many service people have made. So now I’d be more inclined to pay 20%,”

Are tips for counter service actually going to the workers or just directly into the profit line of the owners?

> no table service, no tip.

Fair enough; but "To Improve Promptness" I tip Deliveroo drivers, in the hope they'll drop my burger off before the other guy's.

[Edit] The payment screen for Deliveroo defaults to zero tip.

> ranging from 18 to 30%

I aim at 10%, as close as I can get, rounded up without using copper.

The correct solution is almost certainly legislation at this point... but if the guilt grows too intense, people will ignore the legislation and tip anyway because it will seem immoral to obey any such law.

The cultural norm will soon (if it hasn't already) become ineradicable.

another way to look at it is, pretend tipping does not exist. if the item cost 20-30 percent more, would you still buy it?