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Comment by kube-system | Hacker News Reader

> “My suggestion is you do leave a tip, even if it’s small, at least it’s something,” said etiquette expert and author Jacqueline Whitmore, adding that she typically leaves a 10 to 15% gratuity for takeout services and suggests others give at least 10%. “The bottom line is this. Tipping is good karma … it’s never mandatory, but it’s customary.”

It's 'customary' to tip for takeout? since when?

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If everyone stops doing it, it ceases to be customary. So it’s on each of us to do our part and refuse these new customs.

Also how does one become an “etiquette expert”? Are there some certs I can take?

> Are there some certs I can take?

Its even easier. Just become LinkedIn ThoughtLeader® mentioning how you tipped 30% on last 30 restaurant visits, making world a better place.

> It's 'customary' to tip for takeout? since when?

The customary thing now is to ask for a tip at every possible location, but preferably when you’re face to face to maximize the guilt factor. Digital payment devices in particular prey on peoples’ fear of social interaction.

Just don’t participate, or if you’re the kind of person who likes to call attention to stupidity in daily life, make a point of calling it out to the cashier, explain that you can’t figure out how to get past the screen, and ask them for help with putting a zero amount. Doing it loudly enough that the rest of the customers hear you is a must.

Nope, I'm never going to tip for takeout.

Keep in mind that at least in a lot of places, the servers are the ones packaging your food. Those are the people who depend on tips and while they're putting your food in containers they aren't serving tables, so they are likely missing out on tips there.

So you mean they're doing their job?

Check out my other comments here. I'm very aware of this. But on the other hand, a line has to be drawn somewhere.

What about the people working in the kitchen or the cleaning staff? They usually don't get tips, but do they get better loans than servers?

They should definitely raise that with management, and it should be appropriately compensated.

See what I did there? I correctly made it a problem between the staff and management, rather than making it the customer's problem. This is actually the answer to all tipping/under-compensation problems.

At the macro level, I'm not advocating for tips at all. I think it's a bad system.

But the reality is a lot of people rely on those jobs and have very little bargaining power as individuals. Most don't have the luxury of refusing a job, unlike the highly in demand people here. I don't think it's my place to deny those people income they depend on out of a principal. It'll hurt the little guy and make very little if any difference to the big companies.

If you asked just about any waiter if they would forego the tip system + reduced minimum wage for straight minimum wage, they will tell you no, because they'd make less money.

If a waiter can only make minimum wage then perhaps their labor would be more productive elsewhere. I've never felt like the job of picking up a plate from the kitchen and putting it on a table was all that useful, but I also get that there's more going on in a restaurant; making proles perform for money obviously confers some status on the payer.

Then they should demand higher wages. And if that's too high a cost for the restaurant - they should raise their prices or close their business. Tipping does not make sense, and makes even less sense for takeout.

The only place I might tip for takeout is a local cafe/diner, which has a tip jar labeled "For the Cooks." It sits at the end of the counter between the cooks and customers. Depending on the cook, I might tip for takeout. (If I dine-in, I might tip the cooks, too; as well as the server.)

> typically leaves a 10 to 15% gratuity

10% seems reasonable to me - but every tip screen I've seen in the past year or so _defaults_ to 25% and forces me to select a lower tip amount (and if I want to tip less than 18%, I have to select "custom tip" and type in a number - 10% is never one of the defaults).

I've seen a wide variety, including some with 10%. There really aren't any standard configs -- there's a local coffee shop chain I go to with 3 locations, and I'm pretty sure each of their 3 locations has different defaults come up.

Since the automation of ordering with touch screens. Even restaurant staff would be embarrassed with such grifting of customers. But with touchscreens it easily becomes Sure, Why not?

I can't count the number of times that an employee -- usually at a coffee stand -- has clearly been required to point out the tip screen to customers and is incredibly embarrassed about having to do so. They usually lead off with an apology and some disclaimer like "It's totally optional, but..."

This tells me that the tipping has become crazy not because of the employees, but because of the awfulness of the employers.

Since never. It'll be a cold day in hell before I tip for something I had to truck my ass over to go pick up and bring back myself. This "etiquette expert," whatever the fuck invented job that is, can kiss my ass.

Feel like those responding with a date are the ones responsible for tipping culture getting out of control.

At least a waiter interacts with you multiple times in some way. There's a variable level to that interaction. Same with your barber (which is even more 'personal').

Takeout, you either got my order right or you didn't. Delivery, I got my order or I didn't. Starbucks? I'm not even sure what the logic is there.

I used to tip barbers quite generously; I wanted them to remember my head and my preferences, and not to try to chat with me.

Then my hair got thin and sparse, I bought some electric clippers, and I give myself a #2; I haven't been to a barbers for nearly a decade.

Whitmore is just wrong. Not tipping a taxi driver is fine; but tipping them small-change is likely to elicit a stream of curses - because it's insulting.

It probably depends on how small the tip is, but you're right. Leaving a substantially undersized tip is a statement that you were unhappy about something. Leaving no tip isn't.

I may or may not have allegedly left a single penny as a tip at restaurants before for exceptionally bad service. Shoved down the credit card holder pocket thing so they had to fish it out.

Since always. If you're getting takeout from a sit down restaurant, even if you're not being served you're still getting service from the kitchen. The kitchen staff is tipped out by the front of house, so when you don't tip from takeout the front of house is tipping the kitchen out of their own pocket.

That's why the customary takeout tip is 10%.

Source: friends who work in restaurants.

I'd say tip is also needed for restaurant owners, building owner where restaurant is located, meat suppliers, greens supplier, cardboard box suppliers drivers of delivery trucks and so on. When it comes to restaurant everyone associated works for free.

The definition of service is not "someone does their job". We should also recognize that food service workers are not, in fact, selfless and saintly as a collective group and have skin in this game.

I agree, the tipping economy in the US is corrupt and rigged to benefit the owners. Service employees should be paid a living wage. However, currently they're not, so while I would love to only patronize establishments that pay a living wage, that's not really an option. In the meantime, I don't take out my frustrations on the staff who are the victims of this system by short-changing them.

You are every bit as much of a victim as the staff.

As is the taxpayer: it's estimated that over $20bn of tax underpayment is non-reported tips, constituting 10% of the tax gap.

What variable is there in the kitchen staff's work that warrants tipping?

What you get from a waiter/waitress can vary tremendously. But a cook cooks. If they don't do the job well, you choose to eat elsewhere and the manager may choose to fire the person.

> What variable is there in the kitchen staff's work that warrants tipping?

Turnaround time, quality, order accuracy, etc. When you order from the server, they're the customer of the kitchen and depend on the kitchen's work to get their tips.

The kitchen gets paid somewhat better than the waitstaff, which is why it's not a 50/50 split with the waitstaff, but nobody working in a restaurant is getting a living wage except maybe the management.

Since at least 2020

A number of years now.

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